Overruling ?

[_Bruno_]

lets say we have detached gear on a batted ball. BU makes the call, but sends BR and each runner only 2 bases beyond their TOE(vent) base. the PU tells the BU that he made the wrong base awards, but the BU is sure, that he got it right.

do you overrule your partner, or whats the proper way to correct (or not correct) your partner (if he still thinks, he's right) ?

[AAUA96]

I just went to the NCAA meeting in Philadelphia last weekend. A similar situation was discussed (disagreement among partners about a rule). Mr. Yeast said, and I agree (like that matters), do not have a rule based protest in your game - take the time to get it right - consult a rule book if you have to (you are suppose to have one at the site - maybe in your car (for canadaump6 - in the bag hanging under the seat of your bike)).

At some levels of baseball, losing a protest will cause irreparable damage to your career.

Walt

[_Bruno_]

thats what i thought, but my mates said something like "he made the call, his call stands).
i told them, its not about a judgement call, its about wrong ruling. they said that it doesnt matter. its his call, and if he does not believe, its still his call .

[UMP25]

If it's a ruling as opposed to judgment call, it should be corrected, for the former can lead to a protest if noticed; the latter cannot.

[tiger49]

Originally Posted by AAUA96

(for canada - in the bag hanging under the seat of your bike)).

Walt

Nah we have a neat little cubicle called an Umpire's changeroom.

[Cub42]

There will be times when someone gets their feelings hurt. Take the time to talk to your partner and as stated earlier, even consult the book. You NEVER want to put yourself in a situation to lose a protest. In Pro ball, that is the ticket right out the door when you lose a protest

[DG]

I had something similar this summer in a state 15-17 tournament. I was U3, U2 made a call after a play that awarded a runner home, from 3b. U1 and U2 had a brief discussion while I stayed in a deep D position, fully expecting they would correct the problem, return the runner and then I would move to normal D position. But they separated with no fix, U1 said something to the defensive manager and went back behind the plate, and was getting ready to start play. I stopped him from putting the ball in play and huddled up with them both to explain why the awarded runner should be on 3b, not sent home. After a minute or so discussing I convinced them both and we put the runner back on 3b. Then U1 explained the change to the offensive manager.

We did not need a rule book, we just needed a good long discussion.

[_Bruno_]

Originally Posted by DG

I had something similar this summer in a state 15-17 tournament. I was U3, U2 made a call after a play that awarded a runner home, from 3b. U1 and U2 had a brief discussion while I stayed in a deep D position, fully expecting they would correct the problem, return the runner and then I would move to normal D position. But they separated with no fix, U1 said something to the defensive manager and went back behind the plate, and was getting ready to start play. I stopped him from putting the ball in play and huddled up with them both to explain why the awarded runner should be on 3b, not sent home. After a minute or so discussing I convinced them both and we put the runner back on 3b. Then U1 explained the change to the offensive manager.

We did not need a rule book, we just needed a good long discussion.

that would be the best way :-)
but in my case, both umpires had different ways to rule, even after they discussed it. so, the rulebook might be the best way to get the call right :-)

[DG]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

that would be the best way :-)
but in my case, both umpires had different ways to rule, even after they discussed it. so, the rulebook might be the best way to get the call right :-)

I witnessed a game 2 years ago, HS playoff, where the game was delayed about 15 minutes while one umpire went to the car for a rulebook, then both reviewed the book, and then an incorrect ruling was provided, resulting in a run scored in a 0-0 game in the 4th. Thank goodness the team behind scored 6 in the 7th to win 6-1.

Don't be upset with a coach for bringing one on the field if you are willing to go to the parking lot to get one.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AAUA96

I just went to the NCAA meeting in Philadelphia last weekend. A similar situation was discussed (disagreement among partners about a rule). Mr. Yeast said, and I agree (like that matters), do not have a rule base protest in your game - take the time to get it right - consult a rule book if you have to (you are suppose to have one at the site - maybe in your car (for canada - in the bag hanging under the seat of your bike)).

At some levels of baseball, losing a protest will cause irreparable damage to your career.

Walt

I agree. And, I've gone to the book (in the dugout) to resolve some screwy NCAA DH play (is there any other kind in NCAA?)

That said, if the umpires still can't agree, someone is going to have to take charge and take responsibility. IT's just as likely in the OP that one umpire awards 3 bases and the other steps in to try to "overrule." That's one of the jobs of the crew chief.

Originally Posted by DG

Don't be upset with a coach for bringing one on the field if you are willing to go to the parking lot to get one.

There's a difference between a coach bringing a book on the field without beign asked, and a coach producing one upon request (or the coach asking permission and then showing the rule to the umpire).

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

thats what i thought, but my mates said something like "he made the call, his call stands).
i told them, its not about a judgement call, its about wrong ruling. they said that it doesnt matter. its his call, and if he does not believe, its still his call .

What if your partner said that each team gets four outs and a batter has to have five balls until he's awarded a base-on-balls?

It's a rule violation and it must be resolved between the two of you before the game continues.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Matt]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

What if your partner said that each team gets four outs and a batter has to have five balls until he's awarded a base-on-balls?

It's a rule violation and it must be resolved between the two of you before the game continues.

Agreed. What would happen if you don't correct your partner, and the exact same rule comes into play later, except on your call? Do you call the rule as he did, or as you know it?

[_Bruno_]

i should mention, that we do not have crew-chiefs or someting like this. both umpires have exacly the the "power".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

i should mention, that we do not have crew-chiefs or someting like this. both umpires have exacly the the "power".

It should then default to the plate umpire.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

i should mention, that we do not have crew-chiefs or someting like this. both umpires have exacly the the "power".

This is why I do not personally like the statement in section 9.00 of OBR where it says the plate umpire is the "umpire-in-chief" (commonly called crew chief). This is an archaic and obsolete rule statement that ought to be eliminated or at least clarified.

I am of this opinion because it doesn't make sense, particularly when, for example, the plate umpire is the "less veteran" of the crew, so to speak. For example, if Mr. Jenkins is working the bases in a game I assign, and one of our other less experienced guys is behind the dish, I'm making Bob the Crew Chief. Furthermore, what happens when, say Bob and this same guy work a doubleheader? Is the Crew Chief going to be different from game 1 to game 2 when the 2-man crew switches positions? (BTW, I realize experience, age, veteran status, etc. aren't always automatic qualifications for being a crew's leader. I'm just using this for lack of better terminology right now.)

To make things easier, our Association uses The Arbiter and in that program I point out the crew chiefs for every game assigned. This way, when guys review their schedules, and especially when they print them, they will see who the crew chief is for each game. It helps to clear up any confusion.