Overruling your partner?

JRutledge · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 06:31pm

Since this is not going to be asked by the person that keep making this an issue.

When is it acceptable to overrule your partner?

Give examples if you can when it is appropriate if you can.

I will stay completely out of this discussion and just throw this out there.

Peace

footlocker · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 07:00pm

when would i?

when i am more than 110% positive of my call AND
when my position supports a better angle AND
when i know that my call will not cause chaos AND
at least one team is expecting the right thing to be done.

and in this situation i would STILL not "overrule". I would bring the information to my partner. It's his call.

just my thoughts...

ref18 · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 07:10pm

Only on situations where the ball goes out of bounds and I'm 300% sure that my partner got the call wrong only if it was last touched in my primary. The arrow is another one of these correctable situations. If my mental arrow differs fromt the one on the scorer's table I'll bring it up to my partner and ask if he has definite knowledge that the arrow on the table is right. If he/she doesn't we go with mine.

It is unacceptable for partners to be overruling eachother on fouls and violations except for those listed above. We have to support eachother and act as a team. By overruling every call this is not accomplished and it makes both officials look bad.

Let your partner make a mistake, then discuss the situation at a suitable time, i.e. half time or in your post game. That way, you both will look good on the court and the situation will be addressed at a later time off the court.

oatmealqueen · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 08:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Since this is not going to be asked by the person that keep making this an issue.

When is it acceptable to overrule your partner?

Give examples if you can when it is appropriate if you can.

I will stay completely out of this discussion and just throw this out there.

Peace

JMHO but...
Never acceptable, under any circumstance.
Only if I am asked, by my partner, will I offer any additional information that may assist him/her.
Then, my partner may do what he/she wishes with my offered information.

ref18 · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 08:16pm

I forgot to add in my previous post that if a situation exists where I feel my partner's call should be changed, for the reasons listed above of course, the procedure to adminsiter this change is blowing the whistle, meeting with your partner, then having the one who made the origional call make the corrected call.

rainmaker · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 09:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
Only if I am asked, by my partner, will I offer any additional information that may assist him/her.
Then, my partner may do what he/she wishes with my offered information.

Does "being asked" include partner saying in pre-game "The most important thing is to get the call right?" Do you ever volunteer info without being asked at that moment, if you think the partner is open to that?

Dan_ref · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 10:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
Only if I am asked, by my partner, will I offer any additional information that may assist him/her.
Then, my partner may do what he/she wishes with my offered information.

Does "being asked" include partner saying in pre-game "The most important thing is to get the call right?" Do you ever volunteer info without being asked at that moment, if you think the partner is open to that?

All I know is I would never say this in the locker room after a game:

"Yep, you blew that call but you didn't ask me."

ref18 · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 06, 2004, 10:37pm

Has anyone ever corrected a foul or violation, excluding OOB, called by their partner, and if so, what were the circumstances of this??

zebraman · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 07, 2004, 12:04am

Varsity game two years ago (2-person). About 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter of a great, close game with playoff implications. Partner is lead, I'm trail. Team A is inbounding in frontcourt under their basket. A1 throws inbounds towards top of key where it glances off A2's hands and goes into backcourt. A3 gets control of it. I hear a whistle. My partner has called a backcourt violation! I blow my whistle and run up to him and explain to him that it can't be a backcourt violation without control. He agrees. He changes his call. I did not overrule him, but I sure as heck would have tried to overrule him in that situation if he had resisted. Get it right. Just another one of those times that makes me prefer a ref with good rules knowledge over one with amazing court presence (I prefer both, but given the choice......)

Z

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 07, 2004, 12:34am

Z,

Why would your partner calling a BC Violation as the Lead?

His Rules Knowledge was not the issue. I think he need to look in his mechanics book.

Peace

zebraman · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 07, 2004, 08:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Z,

Why would your partner calling a BC Violation as the Lead?

His Rules Knowledge was not the issue. I think he need to look in his mechanics book.

Peace

Agreed Rut... he needed to chop in time, but he should have been watching for the touch out of the corner of his eye and then release to me since it's in my primary. It was embarrasing... and he wasn't about to go explain the change in his call to the coaches so I had to do it (no problems). It was FUBAR all the way around.

Z

blindzebra · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 07, 2004, 01:18pm

You never over-rule, you assist in them changing their call.

You should only give info and let them make the call right.

oatmealqueen · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 07, 2004, 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
Only if I am asked, by my partner, will I offer any additional information that may assist him/her.
Then, my partner may do what he/she wishes with my offered information.

Does "being asked" include partner saying in pre-game "The most important thing is to get the call right?" Do you ever volunteer info without being asked at that moment, if you think the partner is open to that?

I never volunteer info without "being asked".
And "being asked" isn't always a verbal thing either.

oatmealqueen · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 07, 2004, 03:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
Has anyone ever corrected a foul or violation, excluding OOB, called by their partner, and if so, what were the circumstances of this??

Corrected = no
When called upon for info = given details from my vantage point.

oatmealqueen · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 07, 2004, 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
Varsity game two years ago (2-person). About 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter of a great, close game with playoff implications. Partner is lead, I'm trail. Team A is inbounding in frontcourt under their basket. A1 throws inbounds towards top of key where it glances off A2's hands and goes into backcourt. A3 gets control of it. I hear a whistle. My partner has called a backcourt violation! I blow my whistle and run up to him and explain to him that it can't be a backcourt violation without control. He agrees. He changes his call. I did not overrule him, but I sure as heck would have tried to overrule him in that situation if he had resisted. Get it right. Just another one of those times that makes me prefer a ref with good rules knowledge over one with amazing court presence (I prefer both, but given the choice......)

Z

Why would an official who doesn't understand this very simple, basic, no-brainer of a rule regarding a backcourt violation, be placed in such a big varsity game with playoff implications?
Just wondering.