Would you have dumped him?

[JJ]

BigUmp56 - I specifically posed the question for a youth game for a reason. In an upper level game (college and above) I don't see where a reaction like this would warrant an ejection. But for HS on down this is a no brainer to me.

Hmmm....I WOULD dump this kid - very quickly - and hope that his coach would deal with him as well. I would also expect a visit from the coach, and if he made his point professionally I'd let him talk a little longer than usual IF I thought there was a chance I'd blown the call.
As for the higher levels - you bet I'd dump the player. HE should know better than to put on that kind of show. And his coach would be on my a$$ for missing the call AND on HIS a$$ for taking himself out of the game.

JJ

[jicecone]

After a FULL cup of regular coffee, I'll just say we will have to agree to disagree here.

This was not pro ball, so that argument has NOTHING to do with.

I will stick with my original answer though and move on, no ejection.

[Rich]

Why do some umpires allow this kind of behavior?

I won't allow children to show me up. Never, ever, ever.

And any coach who defends his children showing up an umpire can keep the child company on the bus.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why do some umpires allow this kind of behavior?

I won't allow children to show me up. Never, ever, ever.

And any coach who defends his children showing up an umpire can keep the child company on the bus.

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

Stick to the scenario, Jeff. This isn't an issue of somebody saying something. This is a player throwing equipment, TWICE, in disgust over an officials call.

I had this happen in basketball, and it was an easy call. Player threw his equipment bag in disgust at my partner's call. Real easy call.

[spokanelurker]

As a former coach, far be it from me to agree with you guys, generally. In this case, however, I'd let the helmet go (pushed off his head impulsively), but the thrown hat would seal the deal. The consequence should be the same in this situation, whether imposed by coach or umpire.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Stick to the scenario, Jeff. This isn't an issue of somebody saying something. This is a player throwing equipment, TWICE, in disgust over an officials call.

So would you eject someone every time they show disgust? I would think not. That is why I said this was not "automatic" for me.

Originally Posted by GarthB

I had this happen in basketball, and it was an easy call. Player threw his equipment bag in disgust at my partner's call. Real easy call.

Throwing an equipment bag and jumping around in disgust are two different things. A player had to go get the equipment bag in basketball because the last time I checked they do not run around with one. And if last night I got upset over every time a player showed disgust with a call that was made or not made, we would not have had any players to play. Showing disgust is not all I am looking for just because I called something. I see it much more in other sports and we do not even penalize them. We say something to the coach or the coach immediately handles it, we take note of it but that does not mean it is automatically an ejection.

Peace

[canadaump6]

From what I saw, it didn't look like the player threw his equipment to show up the umpire. It was more out of frustration. Tossing the player would acknowledge the fact that the umpire made a bad call and that the player was throwing his helmet over the call, not his frustration. Now if he glares at the umpire and combines that with throwing of equipment, he's gone. Same goes if he says anything. Now the equipment throwing conveys disrespect, not just frustration.

I also didn't perceive the coach's action as condoning the player's behaviour. He got his player under control, probably told him that even umpires are human, and maybe even told him not to throw equipment or make a big scene. Would it have been more acceptable for him to go up to the umpire and chew him out for making what was clearly a bad call? If I'm an umpire in that situation, I would rather the coach quickly get his player to the bench and move on with things rather than giving me grief for missing an obvious safe call.

[DG]

I'm curious, for all who say "I would dump him" are you assuming you are BU or PU? I am assuming everyone is taking the perspective of the BU, who made the call.

If you are the PU would you toss if your partner, who made this call, did not?

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot.

That's so true. When I watch HS basketball, I can't for the life of me understand why the officials let the coaches talk to them like that. They drop "You...." in the first 30 seconds of every game. Me, I'd hike up my polyester black slacks and toss anyone who'd yell at me like that. If all hardwood officials had the balls to do so they wouldn't be in the state they're in. Although I'll be honest with you, the first time some pencilnecked basketball coach said "you're horrible" with those beet red faces they get, an ejection would be the least of his troubles. I guess that's why I'll never be a ref. Don't talk to me any differently than you would at the grocery store.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys do it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

That's so true. When I watch HS basketball, I can't for the life of me understand why the officials let the coaches talk to them like that. They drop "You...." in the first 30 seconds of every game. Me, I'd hike up my polyester black slacks and toss anyone who'd yell at me like that. If all hardwood officials had the balls to do so they wouldn't be in the state they're in. Although I'll be honest with you, the first time some pencilnecked basketball coach said "you're horrible" with those beet red faces they get, an ejection would be the least of his troubles. I guess that's why I'll never be a ref. Don't talk to me any differently than you would at the grocery store.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys do it.

You must have an ejection every game if you do not like people yelling at you. I see more coaches in baseball yelling and screaming and acting like a maniac then basketball coaches ever do. Coaches whine more than anything. Being a wing official on a football crew would really get you all bent of shape.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You must have an ejection every game if you do not like people yelling at you. I see more coaches in baseball yelling and screaming and acting like a maniac then basketball coaches ever do. Coaches whine more than anything. Being a wing official on a football crew would really get you all bent of shape.

Peace

I do not have baseball coaches acting like maniac in my games and I instruct my wings to not take unsportsmanlike conduct in football, even on Friday nights. My wings threw 3 USC flags this season, all on assistant coaches.

It's prep sports, for crying out loud. If coaches want to act like Earl Weaver or Jerry Glanville on the field at that level, we'll be happy to get rid of them, if needed.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You must have an ejection every game if you do not like people yelling at you. I see more coaches in baseball yelling and screaming and acting like a maniac then basketball coaches ever do. Coaches whine more than anything. Being a wing official on a football crew would really get you all bent of shape.

Peace

No. I've averaged about one EJ per season. I guess coaches just know that can't yell at me. YMMV, but I just don't allow it and let the guys know about up front.

Or maybe I'm just getting more calls right than you are

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kylejt

That's so true. When I watch HS basketball, I can't for the life of me understand why the officials let the coaches talk to them like that. They drop "You...." in the first 30 seconds of every game. Me, I'd hike up my polyester black slacks and toss anyone who'd yell at me like that. If all hardwood officials had the balls to do so they wouldn't be in the state they're in. Although I'll be honest with you, the first time some pencilnecked basketball coach said "you're horrible" with those beet red faces they get, an ejection would be the least of his troubles. I guess that's why I'll never be a ref. Don't talk to me any differently than you would at the grocery store.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys do it.

Don't assume that all basketball officials take crap. You would be very wrong.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

I am a football varsity white hat and a varsity basketball official. In Illinois as well as Wisconsin.

I would whack the kid in basketball and would throw a 15-yard USC in football.

In baseball, the player gets ejected. C'est la vie. Different sports, different punishments.