Would you have dumped him?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Speaking only at the youth level...........


Thrown Helmet


Tim.

"Coach, are you going to handle that or shall I?"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I'm going to retract my statement about dumping him in a heartbeat. I would have given a coach about 1.5 seconds to react to his helmet toss. If the coach want to jump him before I get a chance, so be it. One point five seconds is his window of opportunity to do so. That didn't happen in this situation, so out he goes.

And that is the jukes of my philosophy. If that player turned to me immediately and started yelling, now he is mine.

Peace

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I specifically posed the question for a youth game for a reason. In an upper level game (college and above) I don't see where a reaction like this would warrant an ejection. But for HS on down this is a no brainer to me.

I'm surprised that you'd allow a player at this level to throw sh1t while still on the field and not run him, jice. Allowing him to do this without an ejection just leaves a mess for the next crew working one of his games to clean up.


Tim.

So bobbybanaduck says ejection at pro ball. You disagree. You say throw sh!t on the field, you're outta here. But throw it all over the dugout, you can stay. If something likes this gets your dander up, you must lose focus very easily when working the dish if player, coach or fan slightly gets on your strike zone. Game management skills seem to be lacking.

Just leaves a mess for the next crew working one of his games to clean up. That's the stupidest excuse used to justify an unjust ejection besides teach him a lesson. Ejections need a better reason than this.

Well yesterdays gone. We're here today. Tomorrow hold no guarantees.

If you know you blew a call, sometimes you just need to eat a little chese with the rats.

[JJ]

BigUmp56 - I specifically posed the question for a youth game for a reason. In an upper level game (college and above) I don't see where a reaction like this would warrant an ejection. But for HS on down this is a no brainer to me.

Hmmm....I WOULD dump this kid - very quickly - and hope that his coach would deal with him as well. I would also expect a visit from the coach, and if he made his point professionally I'd let him talk a little longer than usual IF I thought there was a chance I'd blown the call.
As for the higher levels - you bet I'd dump the player. HE should know better than to put on that kind of show. And his coach would be on my a$$ for missing the call AND on HIS a$$ for taking himself out of the game.

JJ

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

it's a pretty easy ej in pro ball, tim. short ej report, too, which is always nice.

Thanks for your response, Bobby. The reason I said I didn't think this would warrant an ejection in a college or professional game is because I've seen similar situations in single A games where the crew simply ignored the player.

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

So bobbybanaduck says ejection at pro ball. You disagree. You say throw sh!t on the field, you're outta here. But throw it all over the dugout, you can stay. If something likes this gets your dander up, you must lose focus very easily when working the dish if player, coach or fan slightly gets on your strike zone. Game management skills seem to be lacking.

I'm not sure what this might have to do with a spectator giving me a hard time and my losing focus easily. I'll take into consideration what a supposedly experienced umpire who's never had an ejection.............ever, has to say about my game management skills and do my best to do the polar opposite of his advice. What happens in the dugouts is not my concern unless I feel it's going to spill over onto the field.


Tim.

[jicecone]

After a FULL cup of regular coffee, I'll just say we will have to agree to disagree here.

This was not pro ball, so that argument has NOTHING to do with.

I will stick with my original answer though and move on, no ejection.

[Rich]

Why do some umpires allow this kind of behavior?

I won't allow children to show me up. Never, ever, ever.

And any coach who defends his children showing up an umpire can keep the child company on the bus.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I specifically posed the question for a youth game for a reason. In an upper level game (college and above) I don't see where a reaction like this would warrant an ejection. But for HS on down this is a no brainer to me.

I'm surprised that you'd allow a player at this level to throw sh1t while still on the field and not run him, jice. Allowing him to do this without an ejection just leaves a mess for the next crew working one of his games to clean up.


Tim.

Originally Posted by jicecone

After a FULL cup of regular coffee, I'll just say we will have to agree to disagree here.

This was not pro ball, so that argument has NOTHING to do with.

I will stick with my original answer though and move on, no ejection.

i see the relevance.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Thanks for your response, Bobby. The reason I said I didn't think this would warrant an ejection in a college or professional game is because I've seen similar situations in single A games where the crew simply ignored the player.
Tim.

you've got to understand that A ball is good for watching some things, and not so good for watching other things. mechanics, positioning, hustle, and things of that nature can be helpful to watch. game management and situations, however...i would say that as often as not you might be able to learn what not to do rather than what to do. these guys are getting their first taste of arguments and ejections. that kind of crap doesn't happen often in the roast, so they don't have much experience. but that is what A ball is for; learning. learn by doing it right, learn by doing it wrong. whatever. just learn.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why do some umpires allow this kind of behavior?

I won't allow children to show me up. Never, ever, ever.

And any coach who defends his children showing up an umpire can keep the child company on the bus.

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm not sure what this might have to do with a spectator giving me a hard time and my losing focus easily. I'll take into consideration what a supposedly experienced umpire who's never had an ejection.............ever, has to say about my game management skills and do my best to do the polar opposite of his advice. What happens in the dugouts is not my concern unless I feel it's going to spill over onto the field.

What gives you the idea I've never had an ejection? Have you ever worked or seen me work? We all know what happens when you assume. Making stuff up is for little kids. I'm sure you're one of those umpires that has to eject because you can't help from becoming confrontational yourself. Don't tell me you haven't. You fit the prototype very nicely, I must say.

And what happens in the dugout is no concern to you unless it going to spill out into the field? They charging the mound and brawling in your games? Careful you don't get bit on the ankle by one of those little buggers.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

Stick to the scenario, Jeff. This isn't an issue of somebody saying something. This is a player throwing equipment, TWICE, in disgust over an officials call.

I had this happen in basketball, and it was an easy call. Player threw his equipment bag in disgust at my partner's call. Real easy call.

[spokanelurker]

As a former coach, far be it from me to agree with you guys, generally. In this case, however, I'd let the helmet go (pushed off his head impulsively), but the thrown hat would seal the deal. The consequence should be the same in this situation, whether imposed by coach or umpire.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Stick to the scenario, Jeff. This isn't an issue of somebody saying something. This is a player throwing equipment, TWICE, in disgust over an officials call.

So would you eject someone every time they show disgust? I would think not. That is why I said this was not "automatic" for me.

Originally Posted by GarthB

I had this happen in basketball, and it was an easy call. Player threw his equipment bag in disgust at my partner's call. Real easy call.

Throwing an equipment bag and jumping around in disgust are two different things. A player had to go get the equipment bag in basketball because the last time I checked they do not run around with one. And if last night I got upset over every time a player showed disgust with a call that was made or not made, we would not have had any players to play. Showing disgust is not all I am looking for just because I called something. I see it much more in other sports and we do not even penalize them. We say something to the coach or the coach immediately handles it, we take note of it but that does not mean it is automatically an ejection.

Peace

[canadaump6]

From what I saw, it didn't look like the player threw his equipment to show up the umpire. It was more out of frustration. Tossing the player would acknowledge the fact that the umpire made a bad call and that the player was throwing his helmet over the call, not his frustration. Now if he glares at the umpire and combines that with throwing of equipment, he's gone. Same goes if he says anything. Now the equipment throwing conveys disrespect, not just frustration.

I also didn't perceive the coach's action as condoning the player's behaviour. He got his player under control, probably told him that even umpires are human, and maybe even told him not to throw equipment or make a big scene. Would it have been more acceptable for him to go up to the umpire and chew him out for making what was clearly a bad call? If I'm an umpire in that situation, I would rather the coach quickly get his player to the bench and move on with things rather than giving me grief for missing an obvious safe call.