Batting out of order

[BJFan]

Thanks for the explanation MIB. I am still having trouble with a few things. You had stated that Hill should be removed from 2B. Why exactly is that? He just missed his turn and was not really replaced by anyone. You also say the out should be charged to Zaun for BOO. In actuality, Hill was the one batting in Zaun's place (with Overbay's at-bat being legalized by the pitch to Hill) - so how exactly is Zaun BOO, it's still Hill commiting the act, no?

On the screen at the Dome they charged Hill with an at-bat. Assuming Zaun was properly charged with the out, why must his average suffer for the error? Also, why wipe-out the double? In the same way statistics count should an inning not count due to something like a suspended game, why can't Zaun get some credit for the hit? Does the pitcher have the pitches wiped from his strike-ball count as well?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BJFan

Thanks for the explanation MIB. I am still having trouble with a few things. You had stated that Hill should be removed from 2B. Why exactly is that? He just missed his turn and was not really replaced by anyone. You also say the out should be charged to Zaun for BOO. In actuality, Hill was the one batting in Zaun's place (with Overbay's at-bat being legalized by the pitch to Hill) - so how exactly is Zaun BOO, it's still Hill committing the act, no?

On the screen at the Dome they charged Hill with an at-bat. Assuming Zaun was properly charged with the out, why must his average suffer for the error? Also, why wipe-out the double? In the same way statistics count should an inning not count due to something like a suspended game, why can't Zaun get some credit for the hit? Does the pitcher have the pitches wiped from his strike-ball count as well?

The screen on the Dome should not have charged Hill with an AB, and Zaun was not out for batting out of order himself, he was out for Hill batting out of order when Zaun was supposed to bat. The act being punished is Zaun failing to hit in his spot.

Here is the simplified version of the BOO rule as it applies here.:

Whoever was supposed to be batting at the time Batting Out of Order is brought to the attention of the umpire is the player that is called out. If Zaun was supposed to have batted, then he is called out, and Hill, who batted out of order, is removed from the base for his illegal at bat. Make any sense yet?

This is what the rule says:

6.07 comment: There are two fundamentals to keep in mind: When a player bats out of turn, the proper batter is the player called out. If an improper batter bats and reaches base or is out and no appeal is made before a pitch to the next batter, or before any play or attempted play, that improper batter is considered to have batted in proper turn and establishes the order that is to follow.

Zaun is charged with an at bat according to the scoring rules (which we umpires really don't care much about anyway), the putout goes to the catcher, and everything to do with the improper batter (Hill) reaching base safely is ignored. See rule 10.03d

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The screen on the Dome should not have charged Hill with an AB.

In fantasy land, I suppose you're right. However, the on-field crew apparently erred in their application of the rule. Do you expect that a Dome employee be able to provide the correct ruling on batting out of order?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

In fantasy land, I suppose you're right. However, the on-field crew apparently erred in their application of the rule. Do you expect that a Dome employee be able to provide the correct ruling on batting out of order?

No, I was just trying to establish that Hill should not be charged with an at-bat. I certainly don't imagine too many scoreboard operators know rule 6.07 by heart.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The screen on the Dome should not have charged Hill with an AB,

Like that should matter.

[BJFan]

Thanks again for the explanation.

Can we expect MLB to get the stats right and charge Zaun with the AB and credit Hill with an ofer, or would that require an official protest by the Jays (which obviously will not happen)?

I read the rule last night and what I found most interesting is that any players who advanced during the illegal AB (by way of passed-ball, WP, steal, etc.) do not have to go back to where they were had the AB not happened.

MLB Gameday also got it wrong, but I would imagine they'd just follow the incorrect umpires ruling which is technically the "official" ruling.

[Forest Ump]

I have always thought that what is written in the J/R is a great way to determine the last legal batter in BOO appeals.

When an at bat has just been completed and the defense appeals that the offense has BOO, the plate umpire should:

1. Determine which players were the last two players to bat.

2. Acknowledge that the second last player to bat was (and always is) legal due to the pitch or pitches made to the player who batted after him.

3. Locate the second last batter's name on the lineup card. The player following him on the line up card is the proper batter; such proper batter was responsible for taking his place at bat as the last batter. [6.02a] If any other player batted, he was improper.

I have explained this to several people in my association and have gotten back glassy eyed stares. I don't know why. This makes great sense to me because it determines the last legal batter. Once that is established the penalties are easy to enforce.