ASA - Batting out of Order

[David Emerling]

I think I'm going out of my mind!

I just had a discussion with a local softball umpire friend of mine regarding the ASA batting-out-of-order rule.

I'll just throw this VERY simple scenario out there and see what you guys think.

Situation: Bases empty, nobody out. Katie is scheduled to bat but an improper batter, Lizzy, comes to the plate. Lizzy grounds out.

Despite the fact that Lizzy made an out, the defense immediately appeals that she batted out of order. They want the PROPER batter, Katie, called out for failing to bat in the proper order -and- they want to keep the out made by the improper batter, Lizzy. Two outs!

Ruling?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[rodan55]

2 Outs. Rule 7.2.D.2 and effect. If appealed before the next pitch, the batter who should have batted would be called out and any out(s) incurred during the incorrect batter's at bat will stand. All advancement of runners and runs will be nullified.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rodan55

2 Outs. Rule 7.2.D.2 and effect. If appealed before the next pitch, the batter who should have batted would be called out and any out(s) incurred during the incorrect batter's at bat will stand. All advancement of runners and runs will be nullified.

Yep, just forty more to go!

[whiskers_ump]

David said:

I think I'm going out of my mind!

See, you are......By rule two outs.

[mcrowder]

This is really easy. It amazes me that anyone who actually works as an umpire and bothers to learn by coming here would have any question AT ALL about BOO. Even the nasty confusing ones are easy. I can understand newbies and coaches coming here with questions on BOO... but any umpire that cares should have this down by now.

[Ran.D]

Had this happen last night.

Now........when the team that BOO comes back in to bat, who steps in the batter's box?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Ran.D

Had this happen last night.

Now........when the team that BOO comes back in to bat, who steps in the batter's box?

The next batter due up. Who that is depends on what happened, when the improper batter was "caught", etc.

[rodan55]

If the incorrect batter is put out and tha batter who was skipped is declared out, not the third out of the inning, the next batter would be the one following the incorrect batter. If the incorrect batter is put out and the skipped batter is declared out for the third out, the batter following the skipped batter would leadoff the next inning, which could be the incorrect batter from the previous inning.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yep, just forty more to go!

37. Why do you always let the visitors win? ?!

[rodan55]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

37. Why do you always let the visitors win? ?!

Looking for a short run rule game.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by rodan55

2 Outs. Rule 7.2.D.2 and effect. If appealed before the next pitch, the batter who should have batted would be called out and any out(s) incurred during the incorrect batter's at bat will stand. All advancement of runners and runs will be nullified.

Changing the subject a little, the NFHS only takes one out in this situation. 7-1-1, Penalty 2 (Casebook 7.1.2 Situation H): ... The umpire shall declare the batter who should have batted out (not the improper batter). The improper batter's time at bat is negated and she is returned to the dugout.

I didn't want any of us 'Fed' umpires to rule incorrectly on this.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Changing the subject a little, the NFHS only takes one out in this situation. 7-1-1, Penalty 2 (Casebook 7.1.2 Situation H): ... The umpire shall declare the batter who should have batted out (not the improper batter). The improper batter's time at bat is negated and she is returned to the dugout.

I didn't want any of us 'Fed' umpires to rule incorrectly on this.

MN,
That is correct. Fed is far more lenient, in this case than ASA.
In ASA, I can get 3 outs on 2 pitches. I can't do that in Fed.
That's OK - Fed is far stricter in some other areas.

[greymule]

It amazes me that anyone who actually works as an umpire and bothers to learn by coming here would have any question AT ALL about BOO.

Don't be too hard on them, mcrowder. Remember that BOO is treated differently in ASA, Fed, and NCAA. Also, the three codes differ in what advances are permitted by runners during the improper batter's at bat. ASA, for example, nullifies any advance made on the last pitch to the improper batter. NCAA nullifies only advances that result from a ball batted by the improper batter, or from the improper batter's advance to 1B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

[QUOTE=Steve M]MN,
That is correct. Fed is far more lenient, in this case than ASA.
In ASA, I can get 3 outs on 2 pitches. I can't do that in Fed.
[QUOTE]

Been there done that. The first week of the season the rule was in place I had that exact situation.

1st Pitch - B1 singles to right.
2nd Pitch - B4 hits into double play
Before the 3rd Pitch - Defense protest B2 failing to bat.

I have absolutely no problem with keeping the outs. It is not like the umpire manufactured them, the offense did. I do not understand why the Fed is letting the team who screwed up off the hook. Too much "little ball" mentality still hanging around, me thinkith!

Oh, that's right, it's the Fed.

[CecilOne]

If you can't recognize that one group of rulemakers can have a different philosophy or see the learning process differently than a primarily competition organization; there is no need to bring up another game in a derogatory manner.