Batting out of order

[ptman]

An interesting question here is whether the official scoring of the game will be changed to reflect that Zaun actually made two outs in a 1-2-3 inning. I wonder if that is a first in MLB. I know it is not a first in organized sports.

This past season, my daughter struck out in a softball game. As she was walking back to the bench, her teammates told her it was only two strikes, not three. She returned to the plate and the next pitch was a strike. She turned again to go to the bench and the umpire asked where she was going. When she explained, the umpires conferred and called her out for batting out of order. Their rationale: her first at bat resulted in a strike out. When she returned for one more pitch, she was batting out of order and therefore was out again. The umpires did not know that the incorrect batter could be replaced by the correct batter before the end of the at bat. (I wasn't there, fortunately, so I couldn't embarass my daughter by "helping" the umpires with the rules.)

Believe it or not, this mistake occurs repeatedly at these lower levels. For the situations we have been talking about in this post, the rules in MLB and Federation (baseball and softball) are the same. There are some minor differences regarding when an appeal is too late. But under all these rules, the proper batter can always be inserted before the end of the at-bat, and the proper batter is always the one put out when a timely appeal is made. We need to do a better job educating the brethren on this.

In my association, the interpreter always makes a dramatic presentation on the BOO rule. Each year he says that we all should get down on our knees and pray before each game that BOO does not occur. He claims it is a most confusing rule. I am convinced that he has successfully persuaded 75% or more of our members that they cannot understand the rule. That perception has thus become reality. I am clueless why he does this.

The BOO rule is about as simple as it can be. Call the "proper batter" out when a timely appeal is made, and get the next batter who follows the proper batter to the plate.

[greymule]

The BOO rule is about as simple as it can be.

Except that different codes handle it differently. Fed differs from OBR, for example. What code does your association operate under?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by greymule

The BOO rule is about as simple as it can be.

Except that different codes handle it differently. Fed differs from OBR, for example. What code does your association operate under?

I think the only difference is whether outs made by the imporper batter putting the ball in play stand. It's no more "different" than other rules, and is realtively simple one an umpire realizes that it should be called "Being Too Stupid To Bat When It's Your Turn."

[greymule]

I think the only difference is whether outs made by the improper batter putting the ball in play stand.

True, and this applies only to runners, not the batter.

There may be another difference, depending on how Fed interprets "the time of the pitch": Bases loaded, no outs. Abel is the proper batter but Baker bats out of order. Ball 4 to Baker caroms off F2's shinguard and into the dugout. All runners move up a base, and Baker proceeds to 1B. The defense then appeals the BOO.

In OBR, Baker is out [edited to say: actually Abel is out, Baker bats again . . . duh!; see next post], but the runners are permitted the advance, not on the base on balls, but on the pitch that went into DBT. I don't know how Fed would treat this play, but in ASA softball any advance made on the last pitch to the batter is nullified, no matter how such advance came about. (In another difference, ASA softball also gives the defense any out made on the improper batter.)

Regardless, all codes I know would treat the Blue Jays–Mariners incident the same way.

[ptman]

Originally Posted by greymule

There may be another difference, depending on how Fed interprets "the time of the pitch": Bases loaded, no outs. Abel is the proper batter but Baker bats out of order. Ball 4 to Baker caroms off F2's shinguard and into the dugout. All runners move up a base, and Baker proceeds to 1B. The defense then appeals the BOO.

In OBR, Baker is out.

I think you meant Baker is removed, Abel is out, and Baker is now the batter.

Under Fed rules, an appeal is lost even if no pitch is thrown if the defense initiates a play. OBR does not expressly qualify losing the appeal on a play initiated by the defense. It says "before any play or attempted play." If an improper batter singles and then tries to steal before any pitch is thrown to the next batter, and the pitcher steps off and throws to second, under Fed the appeal is still alive. Is that true under OBR?

[greymule]

I think you meant Baker is removed, Abel is out, and Baker is now the batter.

Yes, thanks. Uh . . . just testing to see whether people are paying attention!


Under Fed rules, an appeal is lost even if no pitch is thrown if the defense initiates a play. OBR does not expressly qualify losing the appeal on a play initiated by the defense. It says "before any play or attempted play." If an improper batter singles and then tries to steal before any pitch is thrown to the next batter, and the pitcher steps off and throws to second, under Fed the appeal is still alive. Is that true under OBR?

If memory serves, you're right about Fed on this matter. But in OBR, any play after the end of continuing action (like the attempted steal in your scenario), whether initiated by offense or defense, cancels the right to appeal. 6.07(b) [in my 2001 book]

[JugglingReferee]

On the sports report, I heard that the HP umpire had never had a BOO incident in his entire MLB career, which if true, is probably what prompted the conference. Example: I've done football for 12 years, and I've only ever had 1 illegal participation flag. I was unsure how to apply that penalty: I needed help from my crew.