Yankees-Red Sox out of baseline

[Kaliix]

Really??? Even after watching the video and seeing him run away from Rodriguez and take at least four steps and end up on the infield grass. Wow!

Please don't tell me you don't umpire any games in my area.

Originally Posted by fitump56

Thanks.

I have him safe.

[jicecone]

ARod took two steps forward and still couldn't touch Youkalis.

In the end, the correct call was made and I'm a Red Sox fan.

[mbyron]

Although the runner began his route before the fielder had the ball, he clearly deviated more than a reach (and thus more than 3') as the fielder played on him. I have him out as well, and I'm surprised that the MLB guys missed it the first time around.

My speculation would be that, if there were in fact two different calls, the 3B umpire called the runner out of the baseline (he had a good angle on that), and the 2B umpire called "no tag" (he had a good angle on that). But they got it right in the end...

[ChucktownBlue]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Although the runner began his route before the fielder had the ball, he clearly deviated more than a reach (and thus more than 3') as the fielder played on him. I have him out as well, and I'm surprised that the MLB guys missed it the first time around.

That would have been great if A-Rod was in the baseline at the time of attempted tag. Has no one realized that camera angle is not directly over third base? The infield grass is just two feet inside the baseline, A-rod was not even in the actual baseline when the tag was attempted. His glove during the tag barely made the baseline! I'm not a fan of either team, and it's obvious, a fan sees what they want to see.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

The infield grass is just two feet inside the baseline, A-rod was not even in the actual baseline when the tag was attempted. His glove during the tag barely made the baseline! I'm not a fan of either team, and it's obvious, a fan sees what they want to see.

~sigh~

You can't be serious... please read rule 7.08.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

That would have been great if A-Rod was in the baseline at the time of attempted tag. Has no one realized that camera angle is not directly over third base? The infield grass is just two feet inside the baseline, A-rod was not even in the actual baseline when the tag was attempted. His glove during the tag barely made the baseline! I'm not a fan of either team, and it's obvious, a fan sees what they want to see.

You don't know the rule.

A fielder gets the ball. He reaches for the runner going right by him and misses. A man's arms are about 3 feet long. If the fielder misses the tag, the runner has deviated more than 3 feet from his baseline. The runner is out. QED

If you don't follow this line of reasoning, your fanboy circuits have blocked your logical circuits.

[greymule]

I had Youkilis out yesterday and still have him out. From his position when this became a tag play, he moved at least 5 feet inward to avoid the tag.

The infield grass is just two feet inside the baseline

True, but irrelevant. If a runner is 3 feet to outfield side of the line and then moves 2 feet inside the line to avoid a tag, he's out of the base path. If Youkilis had started right on the direct line between 2B and 3B, then being on the grass would not have put him out of his base path.

[GarthB]

Here's an eye test for those who think the runner is not three feet out of his basepath.

WHA
TINTH
ELLARE
YOULOO
KINGATYO
UMORONYOU

[Chris_Hickman]

Garth...can you please write that in a larger font next time... I'm having a little trouble readin' it!!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You don't know the rule.

A fielder gets the ball. He reaches for the runner going right by him and misses. A man's arms are about 3 feet long. If the fielder misses the tag, the runner has deviated more than 3 feet from his baseline. The runner is out. QED

If you don't follow this line of reasoning, your fanboy circuits have blocked your logical circuits.

Now this is not true either. I too have an out on this play, but the logic that any runner going around a fielder must have gone 3 feet is false. ARod was not directly between Uke and the base when the tag attempt started - so the length of ARod's arm shouldn't be the measurement that matters.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I only saw the replay a couple of times.

Youkalis went way past 3 feet away from his basepath from the time A-Rod initiated his tag attempt. He was out there on the grass and made a wide turn just to get out there.

And I hate the Yankees and love the Red Sox. The umpires got it right.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Alright, I went back and watched the video that Jim Porter supplied. I reran it over and over on the definitive shot. A-Rod had the ball in the glove, his right hand holding the ball and looking right at Youkilis. Youkilis at that point makes a giant step directly left to avoid a tag. AR then chases him farther left, reaches as far as he can, and Youkilis is even farther out of reach.

Youkilis started his dodge of the tag at least 6 feet in on the dirt, and was on the edge of the grass when he slipped past the tag by at least a foot.

There was a minimum of 6 feet of deviation from the time A-Rod began to attempt a tag and the time the tag was avoided. So, to my convoluted way of thinking, Youkilis went 2 times past the legal limit in avoiding a tag attempt.

And I'm a Red Sox fan, once again, so my opinion is not fanboy related at all, but an honest assessment of the facts.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

That would have been great if A-Rod was in the baseline at the time of attempted tag. Has no one realized that camera angle is not directly over third base? The infield grass is just two feet inside the baseline, A-rod was not even in the actual baseline when the tag was attempted. His glove during the tag barely made the baseline! I'm not a fan of either team, and it's obvious, a fan sees what they want to see.

As any umpire knows, the baseLINE is completely irrelevant, and only confuses the issue. The question is twofold - WHEN does ARod's tag attempt supposedly begin? Is it the moment he starts heading toward Uke (which it seems most of us believe), or is it the moment ARod is starting to reach (which it seems only Ozzy and WitlessUmp believe). The other question is - how far from the line made between Uke and 3rd base, at the moment that tag attempt began, did Uke move. If more than 3 feet, he's out. If not, he's not.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

Really??? Even after watching the video and seeing him run away from Rodriguez and take at least four steps and end up on the infield grass. Wow! SNIPPED

The only thing that I can say is Yuke was on the grass after passing A-Rod. His deviation at the time of the attempted tag was not more than three feet. And yes, I am a Red Sox fan but believe me, I'd feel the same way if A-Rod was the runner. This is my opinion and the way that I would judge the play. I am more pi$$ed about turning the diamond into a board room but it's all history and I am ready to move on!

Regards

[ctblu40]

When judging this play, we need to decide when the baseline is established. This type of call is 100% judgement, and a tough sell either way. It's tough because the baseline is not established by a static reference point.

7.08
Any runner is out when --
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;

So when did Arod begin to tag Youk? I say at about 0:19 of Jim Porter's video link. Now Youk move to his left. Did he move three feet? Maybe, but I really don't think its as easy a call as some would believe.

I had him safe in live action and out after the replay.

As an aside, why didn't Arod just start the 5-4-3 double play on this ball?