Yankees-Red Sox out of baseline

[greymule]

On a ground ball, A-Rod just tried to tag Youkilis but was unable to reach him as Youkilis ran inward to avoid the tag on his way to 3B. The original call was nothing, but Torre went out, the umpires huddled, and then they called Youkilis out. The Boston manager has now been tossed, but it was the right call.

Interestingly, the Yankee announcers admitted that they didn't know the rule. But it was a perfect instructional case of base path versus base line, and Youkilis was definitely out of the base path (but apparently not the direct line between the bases).

Now the announcers, having asked somebody nearby, are proceeding to confuse millions a viewers by "explaining" the rule.

[rs1128]

On first viewing, it looked like her came too far off line and I felt the runner should have been called out and was not surprised that the call was reversed. But the more I see it the more I'm not so sure.

I might have the rule completely misinterpreted, but I thought the runner is out if he veers more than 3-feet from from wherever the tag is attempted. He appears to be on the base line and base path all the way to the point where A-Rod is positioned. Then he veers, but never more than 3-feet, again from what I can tell. He moves off the line (and path) after the tag is attempted, as his momentum carried him that way, but is within 3-feet before the attempt and at the point of attempt.

So was the initial call right?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by rs1128

On first viewing, it looked like her came too far off line and I felt the runner should have been called out and was not surprised that the call was reversed. But the more I see it the more I'm not so sure.

I might have the rule completely misinterpreted, but I thought the runner is out if he veers more than 3-feet from from wherever the tag is attempted. He appears to be on the base line and base path all the way to the point where A-Rod is positioned. Then he veers, but never more than 3-feet, again from what I can tell. He moves off the line (and path) after the tag is attempted, as his momentum carried him that way, but is within 3-feet before the attempt and at the point of attempt.

So was the initial call right?

The runner's line is from his position to the base. He has 3' either side. Any adult can reach the three feet - so of the fielder reaches and the runner goes around there is a pretty reasonable probability that he exceeded the three foot limit.

[rs1128]

Thanks. Makes sense. But even still, I wouldn't call A-Rod's tag attempt more than half-hearted, more of a reach out in front of him. so i don't think the runner was more than three feet away from him. But sounds like that's a moot point if the 3-feet is defined by the line he was on, not the attempt at a tag.

[greymule]

It appeared to me that when A-Rod got the ball and began his play on the runner, Youkilis was running about 3 feet on the outfield side of the 2B-3B line. His attempted dodge of the tag put him well inside the 2B-3B line, though perhaps not a full 3 feet. So to avoid the tag, Youkilis certainly moved more than 3 feet out of the base path he had established.

It wasn't where Youkilis was in relation to the 2B-3B line, but how far he moved to avoid the tag. Wish I had pictures to post of this play.

[Kaliix]

If you watched the replays of this play from the camera that was behind third base, this was really a no brainer play. Youkalis took at least four steps to his left to avoid the tag and probably ran a good 10 feet away from A-Rod to avoid the tag. I also wouldn't call the tag attempt half hearted, he really did try and make and attempt to tag him.

I was surprised that the call wasn't made in real time, as it should have been an easy call for whoevers call it was (not sure whose call this is using four man mechanics).

If Youkalis was real smart he would have veered right so that A-Rod would either not have attempted to tag him or if he did, wouldn't have been able to make the throw to first. If Youkalis was just smart, he would have run over A-Rod ala Albert Belle.

[ozzy6900]

Uke was heading in before the ball was in A-Rod's glove. He continues to head in as the feeble tag attempt is made then once past A-Rod, Uke hits the grass and turns toward 3rd.

The correct call was the first call. But then, we have to have a friggen meeting and 3 guys that have no view of the play seem to get the cal changed. The only real fault was the 3rd base umpire had no balls to stay with his call. The baseball diamond is turning into a flippen board room and I am really getting tired of it!

I had a similar play a couple of years ago. I did not call the runner out and he slid into 2nd base safely. I ended up tossing a defensive player and the defensive manager but the call was correct.

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by greymule

On a ground ball, A-Rod just tried to tag Youkilis but was unable to reach him as Youkilis ran inward to avoid the tag on his way to 3B. The original call was nothing, but Torre went out, the umpires huddled, and then they called Youkilis out. The Boston manager has now been tossed, but it was the right call.

Interestingly, the Yankee announcers admitted that they didn't know the rule. But it was a perfect instructional case of base path versus base line, and Youkilis was definitely out of the base path (but apparently not the direct line between the bases).

Now the announcers, having asked somebody nearby, are proceeding to confuse millions a viewers by "explaining" the rule.

they AND you blew it.

[Kaliix]

Watch the replay here http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=nyy. Click on "Francona's Ejection" that is along the right side under Related Links. You can clearly see Youkilis take four steps away from Rodriguez as he attempting to tag him. Rodriguez didn't just flip the glove out there either, he went to a full out stretch to tag Youkilis and still couldn't tag him.

The video doesn't lie folks. Youkilis was out of the baseline and properly called out by Carlson initially and after the huddle.

[D-Man]

When does Carlson call him out BEFORE the huddle?

[Jim Porter]

Direct Link To The Video

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

Direct Link To The Video

Thanks.

I have him safe.

[PeteBooth]

IMO, the call of Out /safe is irrlevant. The call belonged to U3 and at the time in his judgement (right or wrong) he ruled Youkillis safe.


Then all the umpires huddled and the call was changed. Why did U3 change the call? - Do not know

IMO, this is similar to CB's call in the Mets / Phillies game. CB made the call PERIOD. He did not huddle with his fellow officials and ask for THEIR JUDGEMENT. He trusted his judgement right or wrong.

This type of "thing" trickles down to the amateur game where for the most part there are only 2 of us.

One of these days, there will be a few controversial calls in a game. Then what! every time the official who made the call has to huddle. Suppose on the next play there was a close call at third. The coaches will come out and ask that U3 "huddle" with his partners to see if any of them had a better angle.

Once you let "pandora out of her box" get ready.

IMO, this situation is not about safe / out but about umpire judgement. Apparently one of the other umpires convinced U3 that HIS judgement was better than U3's

Note: I am not a Red Sox Fan

Pete Booth

[Kaliix]

According to the reports on the game, Carlson (U3) had the Youkilis out initially and Cousins (U2) had him safe. I read one person on this thread, D-Man say he called a friend who said the opposite happened, but I tend to believe the game report.

If there were two calls, then there was a darn good reason for a huddle.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

IMO, the call of Out /safe is irrlevant. The call belonged to U3 and at the time in his judgement (right or wrong) he ruled Youkillis safe.


Then all the umpires huddled and the call was changed. Why did U3 change the call? - Do not know

IMO, this is similar to CB's call in the Mets / Phillies game. CB made the call PERIOD. He did not huddle with his fellow officials and ask for THEIR JUDGEMENT. He trusted his judgement right or wrong.

This type of "thing" trickles down to the amateur game where for the most part there are only 2 of us.

One of these days, there will be a few controversial calls in a game. Then what! every time the official who made the call has to huddle. Suppose on the next play there was a close call at third. The coaches will come out and ask that U3 "huddle" with his partners to see if any of them had a better angle.

Once you let "pandora out of her box" get ready.

IMO, this situation is not about safe / out but about umpire judgement. Apparently one of the other umpires convinced U3 that HIS judgement was better than U3's

Note: I am not a Red Sox Fan

Pete Booth

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The coaches will come out and ask that U3 "huddle" with his partners to see if any of them had a better angle.

But they already do come out and ask you to seek help. I see it happen at least a few times each season. If you're confident about your call the correct response is, "It's my call. I don't need help."