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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 02:26pm
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Yankees-Red Sox out of baseline

On a ground ball, A-Rod just tried to tag Youkilis but was unable to reach him as Youkilis ran inward to avoid the tag on his way to 3B. The original call was nothing, but Torre went out, the umpires huddled, and then they called Youkilis out. The Boston manager has now been tossed, but it was the right call.

Interestingly, the Yankee announcers admitted that they didn't know the rule. But it was a perfect instructional case of base path versus base line, and Youkilis was definitely out of the base path (but apparently not the direct line between the bases).

Now the announcers, having asked somebody nearby, are proceeding to confuse millions a viewers by "explaining" the rule.
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 03:56pm
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Help me out

On first viewing, it looked like her came too far off line and I felt the runner should have been called out and was not surprised that the call was reversed. But the more I see it the more I'm not so sure.

I might have the rule completely misinterpreted, but I thought the runner is out if he veers more than 3-feet from from wherever the tag is attempted. He appears to be on the base line and base path all the way to the point where A-Rod is positioned. Then he veers, but never more than 3-feet, again from what I can tell. He moves off the line (and path) after the tag is attempted, as his momentum carried him that way, but is within 3-feet before the attempt and at the point of attempt.

So was the initial call right?
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 04:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs1128
On first viewing, it looked like her came too far off line and I felt the runner should have been called out and was not surprised that the call was reversed. But the more I see it the more I'm not so sure.

I might have the rule completely misinterpreted, but I thought the runner is out if he veers more than 3-feet from from wherever the tag is attempted. He appears to be on the base line and base path all the way to the point where A-Rod is positioned. Then he veers, but never more than 3-feet, again from what I can tell. He moves off the line (and path) after the tag is attempted, as his momentum carried him that way, but is within 3-feet before the attempt and at the point of attempt.

So was the initial call right?
The runner's line is from his position to the base. He has 3' either side. Any adult can reach the three feet - so of the fielder reaches and the runner goes around there is a pretty reasonable probability that he exceeded the three foot limit.
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 04:11pm
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Thanks. Makes sense. But even still, I wouldn't call A-Rod's tag attempt more than half-hearted, more of a reach out in front of him. so i don't think the runner was more than three feet away from him. But sounds like that's a moot point if the 3-feet is defined by the line he was on, not the attempt at a tag.
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 04:43pm
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It appeared to me that when A-Rod got the ball and began his play on the runner, Youkilis was running about 3 feet on the outfield side of the 2B-3B line. His attempted dodge of the tag put him well inside the 2B-3B line, though perhaps not a full 3 feet. So to avoid the tag, Youkilis certainly moved more than 3 feet out of the base path he had established.

It wasn't where Youkilis was in relation to the 2B-3B line, but how far he moved to avoid the tag. Wish I had pictures to post of this play.
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 04:46pm
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If you watched the replays of this play from the camera that was behind third base, this was really a no brainer play. Youkalis took at least four steps to his left to avoid the tag and probably ran a good 10 feet away from A-Rod to avoid the tag. I also wouldn't call the tag attempt half hearted, he really did try and make and attempt to tag him.

I was surprised that the call wasn't made in real time, as it should have been an easy call for whoevers call it was (not sure whose call this is using four man mechanics).

If Youkalis was real smart he would have veered right so that A-Rod would either not have attempted to tag him or if he did, wouldn't have been able to make the throw to first. If Youkalis was just smart, he would have run over A-Rod ala Albert Belle.
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 07:00pm
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Uke was heading in before the ball was in A-Rod's glove. He continues to head in as the feeble tag attempt is made then once past A-Rod, Uke hits the grass and turns toward 3rd.

The correct call was the first call. But then, we have to have a friggen meeting and 3 guys that have no view of the play seem to get the cal changed. The only real fault was the 3rd base umpire had no balls to stay with his call. The baseball diamond is turning into a flippen board room and I am really getting tired of it!

I had a similar play a couple of years ago. I did not call the runner out and he slid into 2nd base safely. I ended up tossing a defensive player and the defensive manager but the call was correct.
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 07:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900
snip
How's the weather north of New Haven?
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 07:34pm
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You are either blind of a member of "the Nation". Youkalis took 4 steps to get away from the tag. It was blatantly obvious on the replay and shouldn't have been missed in the first place.

They did the right thing getting together and changing the call. U2 should have a just as good of a view of the play if he was watching the ball. U3 should have had the out in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900
Uke was heading in before the ball was in A-Rod's glove. He continues to head in as the feeble tag attempt is made then once past A-Rod, Uke hits the grass and turns toward 3rd.

The correct call was the first call. But then, we have to have a friggen meeting and 3 guys that have no view of the play seem to get the cal changed. The only real fault was the 3rd base umpire had no balls to stay with his call. The baseball diamond is turning into a flippen board room and I am really getting tired of it!

I had a similar play a couple of years ago. I did not call the runner out and he slid into 2nd base safely. I ended up tossing a defensive player and the defensive manager but the call was correct.
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Well I am certainly wiser than this man. It is only too likely that neither of us has any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he knows something which he does not know, whereas I am quite conscious of my ignorance. At any rate it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think that I know what I do not know. ~Socrates
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 07:49pm
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If you're a Yankees fan, it was a great call. If you're a BoSox fan, it was a terrible call.

What else is new?
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 07:53pm
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I am...but I like Ozzy's point.

This is a judgment call and it's the U3's call exclusively all the way. Whether or not U3 was correct, he needs to die with his JUDGMENT call. There's no ball on the ground or checked swing appeal. It's just one umpire's judgment...did Youk move more than 3 feet away from his baseline to avoid a play being made on him? Maybe, but U3 said no. It should have ended there.

D
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 08:00pm
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Youk, probably should have pulled an A-Rod and slapped the glove and hoped the ball fell out.

The weather in Plattsburgh NY is COLD. Of course that is really north of N. Haven. Just in case someone wanted to know.

I have to go along with Ozzy, as a Red Sox fan I thought it was a terrible call !!!!!!!!!!! Even if I didn't see it. (The dang hotel doesn't show the game. )
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 08:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The correct call was the first call.
Say what?

According to the game report, the problem was that there were TWO first calls. Cousins on 2B called Youkilis safe. Carlson on 3B called him out. That's why they got together.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270830110
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 08:23pm
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Would a MLU guy lie?

I was listening on the radio but when the play happened I call a friend of mine (Yankee fan) and he said Carlson booted the call (see my previous entry for today's definition of "booting"). If the play is going into third it's U3's call. I've got an eyewitness who tells me Carlson (U3, by the way) called Youk safe.

As Tee would say...Hmmmmm.....

D
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Old Thu Aug 30, 2007, 08:35pm
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nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by greymule
On a ground ball, A-Rod just tried to tag Youkilis but was unable to reach him as Youkilis ran inward to avoid the tag on his way to 3B. The original call was nothing, but Torre went out, the umpires huddled, and then they called Youkilis out. The Boston manager has now been tossed, but it was the right call.

Interestingly, the Yankee announcers admitted that they didn't know the rule. But it was a perfect instructional case of base path versus base line, and Youkilis was definitely out of the base path (but apparently not the direct line between the bases).

Now the announcers, having asked somebody nearby, are proceeding to confuse millions a viewers by "explaining" the rule.
they AND you blew it.
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