Red Sox/Yankees

jicecone · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 10:50am

Did anyone see this game and the unusal amount of missed ball and strike calls for the PU? Yes I no that even at the MLB level, mistakes are made however this plate umpire seemed as though he was having a bad day. Especially when he called Ortiz out on a foul tip that was at best 8 inches from his bat. He was probably out on the check swing if anything, but to be that dramatic on trying to sell the call that wasn't even close, really made him look bad.

I realize the the pressures of being behind the plate for that type of game, (then again mabey I don't), however I just felt that the plate umpire was not having a good game considering the quality of official I expect would be selected for those games.

Just my opinion.

johnSandlin · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 11:28am

Angel Hernadez was PU for last night's Red Sox/Yankees game. I only caught the last few innings of the game, but of what I saw, I thought Angel was very consistent with balls and strikes for the time I was watching the game.

I have no opinion to offer for the first part of the game. You are correct about MLB assigning the best officials for the post season. Angel has been touted as one of the top respected umpires in MLB for the last four to five years with having the honor of working the World Series last year.

However, did anybody watch the NLCS game 7 last night? I thought PU Jerry Crawford was a little tight on the corners as far as the strike zone. I remember two times he did call people out on strikes when it was on the corner. However, I did not think he was consistent with the corners last night?

Any thoughts?

GarthB · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 11:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by johnSandlin
Angel has been touted as one of the top respected umpires in MLB for the last four to five years with having the honor of working the World Series last year.

John:

Just curious...do you have a source for the above comment or is this just something your "heard?"

The reason I ask is that in the last couple of player and coaches polls, Hernandez has ranked near the bottom. I don't ask out of the intent to start a Hernandez bashing thread, I'm just interested in comparing the data. With the players and coaches ranking him so low, it would be interesting to see who rated him so highly, and why.

As for "MLB assigning the best officials for the post season", over half of all umpires get post season assignments. By any calculation, that means dipping down into the shallow end of the pool.

johnSandlin · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 12:15pm

Garth,

I read an article about a month in Sports Illustrated about players, managers, and front office people rating the MLB staff. According to this data, Hernandez was ranked among the worst umpires in the eyes of the players and managers.

But, Hernandez was ranked among the best and most respected umpires in MLB. Plus, back in July, while working the USSSA 14 and under baseball World Series in Canton, MI; some of us had the opportunity to meet Tim Welke and question him about different aspects of umpiring at the major league level.

He spoke very, very highly of Angel Hernandez as an umpire at the major league level. He thought Angel was an outstanding major league umpire and Tim really enjoyed working with Angel on past occassions in the post season when they were assigned to the same crew.

GarthB · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by johnSandlin
Garth,

But, Hernandez was ranked among the best and most respected umpires in MLB.

By whom? Is that ranking public information? Where can we see it?

johnSandlin · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 01:42pm

First off, allow me to clear a typo error on my part. According to SI's article Hernandez was ranked among the top umpires, not among the worst like I accidently typed.

I am not sure if you can go to SI' website and find the article. The aritcle was in the baseball section, but it was not one of the leading story lines, though.

As far as the information given to me by Tim Welke, that will be a little hard to put on a web site, because that was just general conversation in the umpire's room at a baseball tournament.

So, I am not sure what else I can do to help you out Garth. BTW, what data were you referring to by chance and where can I find it to take a look at if at all possible?

GarthB · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 02:22pm

1. I doubt any ML umpire is ever going to speak negatively of a "brother" umpire in front amateur umpires, or the public in general.

2. The poll was a USA today poll of players and coaches. I have a copy and would be happy to send you one. Just email me at [email protected] and I'll attach it to the reply.

Jim Porter · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 02:29pm

The best I can do is the results of the 1999 poll. Out of 36 National League Umpires, Angel Hernandez was listed 34th in temperment, 32nd in respect for players, 32nd in consistency, and 31st as worst overall. He didn't make the top 10 in any category.

http://www.stevetheump.com/ump_ratings.gif

Being a lifelong Red Sox fan, I watched every minute of ALCS Game 6. Despite the fact that the Sox won, I still say Angel Hernandez was an embarassment to umpires. His strike zone was all over the place. He called one foul tip and replays showed the bat missed the ball by a wide margin. Toss in his erroneous foul call on Todd Walker's home run earlier in the series in which Tim McClelland had to save his butt, and it makes me wonder what business this guy has officiating on a Major League Baseball field, let alone a playoff series.

insatty · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 02:36pm

Boy, what a rough crowd! I learn much from Jim Porter and the usual suspects on these posts, but I would hate to have them watch me work.

Jim Porter · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 02:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by insatty
Boy, what a rough crowd! I learn much from Jim Porter and the usual suspects on these posts, but I would hate to have them watch me work.

There is a considerable difference between watching an umpire work amateur baseball, and watching what are supposed to be the best of the best. If you want to see top notch officiating, don't look at MLB. Go to your local AAA park and watch those guys work. Those are the officials who are at the top of their games.

MLU's, generally speaking, tend to be far more lazy and have much bigger chips on their shoulders. Of course, it's not true for all of them, but a large number, sadly, it is.

I have never had terribly negative things to say about any of the umpires I've watched work at McCoy Stadium, home of the AAA Pawtucket Red Sox, in all the years I've been going there.

johnSandlin · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 02:47pm

As far as why people work certain levels of ball and the playoffs is a whole other topic in its self. However, seen the information that was given I see where you all are coming from.

BTW, that the major league umpire I mentioned before has no problem voicing his displeasure of his fellow MLB umpires. I have known this umpire for a while now, because I went to college in his home town. But at the World Series in Canton, MI that I mentioned in a previous reply....one umpire asked him if there was anybody currently on the Major League Staff of Umpires that he did not like?

This particular umpire that I know wasted no time in voicing his disapproval of a some selected umpires he did not enjoy working with. I will not mention the names that he mentioned in respect of protecting privacy, but he did refer to a few he did not like.

P.S- To protect these guy's privacy guys, if we are going to talk about something we feel that they did wrong, let us refer to them by position. I know have not done a good job of this lately, but I think it would be the more proper thing to do from now on.

Dave Hensley · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 11:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by johnSandlin
First off, allow me to clear a typo error on my part. According to SI's article Hernandez was ranked among the top umpires, not among the worst like I accidently typed.

No, you were right the first time. The players ranked him 5th worst umpire in SI's survey this year.

The five best:

Tim McClelland 22.0%
Jim Joyce 9.2%
Ed Rapuano 8.9%
John Hirschbeck 8.0%
Ted Barrett 4.8%
Mark Hirschbeck 4.5%

The five worst:

C.B. Bucknor 20.7%
Bruce Froemming 16.1%
Joe Brinkman 8.0%
Joe West 7.0%
Phil Cuzzi 4.7%
Angel Hernandez 4.7%

Here's a link to the whole survey:

Sports Illustrated's 2003 Player Survey

I have heard that Angel gets good Questec ratings, which if true might explain his playoff assignments the last couple of years. I thought his first plate in the series was fine, but I have to agree with most others who thought he was overly tight and inconsistent last night. Also, the foul tip call was a gross error that is still hard to believe.

GarthB · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 16, 2003, 11:56pm

Dave:

The best part of the SI survery of pro ball players is that some of them listed Babe Ruth as the best living player.

Gawd!

Jim Porter · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 17, 2003, 12:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley
I thought his first plate in the series was fine

Dave, did he have a plate game in a division series? Because that was his only plate game in the ALCS.

His High Holiness · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 17, 2003, 09:31am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB

Quote:

By whom? Is that ranking public information? Where can we see it?

Garth;

Maybe QuesTec rated him at the top.

After all, what a great way for Sandy Alderson to send a message to the umpires. Coaches hate you, players hate you, QuesTec loves you, so you go to the playoffs.

And now for another shameless promotion. I have an article coming up on this very subject - in the paid section of course. Check to "On Deck" area for dates.

Peter