Bud Selig

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I take it the you haven't checked since 1990. Anabolic steroids used for non-medical purposes have been illegal under federal law since then under the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990.

http://mesomorphosis.com/articles/co...nd-the-law.htm

http://mesomorphosis.com/articles/co...escription.htm

JR, I am not talking about illegal as it relates to the law. Steroids were not a banned substance for MLB and there was no testing for such a drug. The NFL bans all kinds of substances that are legal. The NFL has had a steroids ban since the 80s at least. Mark McGwire was using Androstenedione which could be bought at any GNC at that in the 90s (I am a Cardinal fan). It was a legal supplement that the NFL and other sports organizations long banned. MLB did not see this as a problem. Amphetamines and uppers have been apart of baseball for 50 years and just last year these were outlawed by Major League Baseball. At that time I was discussing with several people about what to take for work out purposes. I had even discussed with a friend about steroids and their affects along with other supplements like Creatine.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Clay Hensley? I'm going to have to doubt the validity of this. This would be the first I've EVER heard mention of this, and I follow the Padres rather closely. Are you sure about this?

It was apart of the press conference that Bonds was involved in. Bonds was asked a question about the pitcher and what did he think about hitting his homerun off a player that was suspended for steroids.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Yeah, like the trainer who supplied Bonds, but he decided to go to jail instead of talk to the grand jury. There'll be a payday for him down the road.

And Bonds, who admitted taking them, but said he didn't know they were performance enhancing.

Did it ever occur to you, that maybe Greg Anderson did not provide Bonds with any illegal substances and that is why he was willing to go to jail? I know I would not go to jail for someone that is guilty. People that deal with the mafia squeal to save themselves. I find it odd that someone that apparently provided an illegal substance is not telling on them if they really did do what they were accused of. Even the owner of Balco has claimed Bonds was never provided with any illegal substances. Now why would two guilty people stand by Bonds if Bonds was guilty?

Originally Posted by GarthB

BTW, steriods are banned substances in baseball.

Steroids are banned now, they were not banned when Bonds was accused of using them. And ever since they have been banned, the man has not failed a single steroids test. Not one big time player has been found guilty of using steroids. Guys like Benito Santiago was caught and has since retired from the game. Santiago I do not think hit more than 20 homers in any season and ended his career with no more than 15.

Originally Posted by GarthB

Hat's off to Hank Aaron. The man has class and the balls to do the right thing.

As much as I admire Mr. Aaron for all he has been through, but I have lost a lot of respect for him on many levels considering his position. Having been condemned himself when he was breaking the record Aaron should be ashamed of himself for taking any stance other than that of what we know. Even if you say Bonds took steroids, he has not been found out in the last several years. So until we all have proof and stop talking about hat sizes and how big someone is in their older ages, I think it is just wrong. I always find it funny how we give certain people the benefit of the doubt but we want to assume others are guilty as sin (Duke Case, a certain Yankee pitcher).

Peace

[sri8527]

if anyone hear really thinks bonds is clean, read the book "game of shadows", if you still think he is clean, why not sue the authors, the publisher, everyone and anyone? when anyone can answer that simple question, i will be more than willing to rethink the issue.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It was apart of the press conference that Bonds was involved in. Bonds was asked a question about the pitcher and what did he think about hitting his homerun off a player that was suspended for steroids.

Peace

Is your new signature some kind of attempt to justify what Mike Vick did (allegedly) to those poor dogs?

Of course humans are more important than animals, but cruelty to animals is sick, and what Vick did (allegedly) with those dogs is absolutely reprehensible, and I for one hope he goes to prison, which is very likely. If any of us had done this, we would already have been tried, convicted, and sentenced. Vick's celebrity status will possibly allow him to weasel out of it though. Mike Vick is not a good guy.

I wonder if Vick were white, you would be championing his cause. Somehow I doubt it.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by sri8527

if anyone hear really thinks bonds is clean, read the book "game of shadows", if you still think he is clean, why not sue the authors, the publisher, everyone and anyone? when anyone can answer that simple question, i will be more than willing to rethink the issue.

Because Libel is a very difficult thing to prove in a US court, and a lot of the speculation comes from leaked grand jury transcripts which were illegally made public. It's a mess legally, so Bonds really has no legal option IMO.

If Bonds took steroids he should never be in the HOF, even though he was a first ballot HOFer before all the doping accusations. But, while the guys in "Game of Shadows" has a point, you gotta have proof. And so far, nobody has evidence that Bonds was on the juice that holds up in a court of law. Come up with a test that shows he was using, then he will be held up for ridicule as he should be.

On a side note, for those of you who care, one group of people has been very successful with libel suits: The terror financing Saudis. If you are wondering what I am talking about, look up the recent controversy over the book "Alms for Jihad" by Rachel Ehrenfeld. It is an obsenity.

[mbyron]

The issue of "proof" is a red herring. What standard do you propose? "Beyond a reasonable doubt," as in a criminal trial, or "the preponderance of the evidence," as in a civil trial? Oh wait, there's no trial, other than the trial of public opinion.

Barry Bonds started his career about 20 years ago as a scrawny speedster (like his dad was for his whole career). Human bodies don't add that much bulk without enhancement. To my mind, it's more likely than not that Bonds used steroids. I think that it's reasonable to conclude that Bonds probably used performance enhancing substances. So what?

I'm not one of those who thinks that baseball should castigate, flagellate, or otherwise punish Bonds for his transgressions. If Bonds broke the law, it's up to the legal system to punish him; if he offended you personally by his behavior, then you're entitled to bad-mouth him. But he has hit a ball over a fence 755 times, which only one other person has done, even WITH all the juicing going on.

To judge by his public statements and the behavior of too many people around him, Bonds is an a$$. I don't doubt that he has endured vicious and racist comments, but his insistence on playing the race card at every opportunity - comparing himself to Jackie Robinson and others - is grandiose and despicable.

But aren't Bonds and his fellow (likely-) juicers "bad for baseball"? Sure. I don't like the idea of people getting an edge in this way. I think that baseball should do what it takes to police its personnel, and to uphold as high a standard of competition and fair play as it can. It has been lax in this regard, and I think that Selig and his cronies take the attitude of doing the least they can while still filling the seats - in other words, for them, it's about business and not principle. That's one consequence of having an owner-commissioner.

But I don't see how all that concern should be dumped on Bonds. He's matched a record, and (in my opinion) juicing helped. We live in a hypocritical culture, and a lot of subconscious tensions explode on those who transgress our fine little lines. Take as much caffeine as you wish, but juicing is out of bounds. Smoke tobacco, drink alcohol, and eat trans fat until you bankrupt Medicare, but touch a joint and you're going to jail. We sexualize our children with juvenile beauty pageants and then are shocked that our culture produces more than its share of pederasts.

We know that many of our lines are somewhat arbitrary and unprincipled, and this knowledge creates stress and anxiety. Is juicing cheating, or just enhancement of an athlete's natural prowess? We have not resolved that issue, and until we do it's arbitrary and capricious to take out our anxieties about it on Barry Bonds, no matter how big an a$$ he is.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Is your new signature some kind of attempt to justify what Mike Vick did (allegedly) to those poor dogs?

Of course humans are more important than animals, but cruelty to animals is sick, and what Vick did (allegedly) with those dogs is absolutely reprehensible, and I for one hope he goes to prison, which is very likely. If any of us had done this, we would already have been tried, convicted, and sentenced. Vick's celebrity status will possibly allow him to weasel out of it though. Mike Vick is not a good guy.

I wonder if Vick were white, you would be championing his cause. Somehow I doubt it.

You mean you're not siding with the NAACP, who's demanding fair treatment, etc. of Vick? Yet this same organization of hypocrisy tarred and feathered the Duke Lacrosse players from the get-go, when there was FAR less "evidence" against them than there has been and is against that scumbag Vick. Where's the NAACP now, huh? They and that opportunistic racist unRev. Jackson and Sharpton can go pound sand.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Clay Hensley? I'm going to have to doubt the validity of this. This would be the first I've EVER heard mention of this, and I follow the Padres rather closely. Are you sure about this?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ritethru.0694/

[SAump]

NFL banning steroids! What a joke.

Why is Barry Bonds associated with steroids use? Sports Illustrated wrote a 1980's article about the #1 baseball prospect in the nation. The kid from Florida had been "juicing" for 2 years in high school. Mentioned in the same article were Creatine and/or Andro. At the same time, the A's Bash Brothers were part of baseballs finest group of superstars. Anyone punish those guys? MLB front office didn't take any action on the kid either. He was the nation's top prospect, drafted number ONE, and paid alot of money to play the game. By the way, the kid was also a top college football prospect.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Apparently the pitcher that Bonds hit the home run off of was tested positive for steroids previously. There have actually been more pitchers tested positive than batters.

I also saw that Carlton Fisk hit the exact same number of home runs as Bonds (72) since they reached the age of 40. I guess Fisk was a steroid user too. And Aaron was just a year younger when he hit 755. Sounds to me like a lot of people have some explaining to do.

Peace

Of course you failed to mention that Barry doesn't play the next day game after a night game. He also missed almost the entire 2006 season. I'm willing to say Fisk played in more games and had more at bats. I'll also go on record that Fisk didn't walk near as much as Bonds.

I suppose you think Bonds just started drinking milk like those kids in those old commercials.

"Got flax seed?"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

You mean you're not siding with the NAACP, who's demanding fair treatment, etc. of Vick? Yet this same organization of hypocrisy tarred and feathered the Duke Lacrosse players from the get-go, when there was FAR less "evidence" against them than there has been and is against that scumbag Vick. Where's the NAACP now, huh? They and that opportunistic racist unRev. Jackson and Sharpton can go pound sand.

I just have to say something about this. First of all I have been a member of the NAACP for years. The NAACP has as much right at PETA or any other organization to speak out on the Vick situation. And it was also the local Atlanta chapter that had a press conference about a week ago and not the national organization. For your information Jackson and Sharpton have no direct affiliation with the NAACP and they run organizations completely different from the NAACP. And all the local NAACP wanted everyone to let the system play out before jumping to conclusions. Remember Atlanta is a largely African-American city and if the Falcons do anything with Vick that community might turn on them.

Secondly I always love how people can always find fault in certain people but not in others. The Duke case was not the only case in our country where players of a university were accused of something to only have the charges dropped. If the players were the football team and the composition of the players were from a poorer or more intercity background, those kids would have gone to trial at the very least and there would be no lawyer being disbarred. I know a lawyer that is the State's Attorney in my back yard over that was in charge during a murder case that were a conviction was over turned and the police and the lawyers were accused of some misconduct. Then this lawyer even ran for Governor and is still in his State's Attorney role today. I guess if you change the "players" then our outrage drastically changes.

Peace

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

JR, I am not talking about illegal as it relates to the law. Steroids were not a banned substance for MLB and there was no testing for such a drug. The NFL bans all kinds of substances that are legal. The NFL has had a steroids ban since the 80s at least. Mark McGwire was using Androstenedione which could be bought at any GNC at that in the 90s (I am a Cardinal fan). It was a legal supplement that the NFL and other sports organizations long banned. MLB did not see this as a problem. Amphetamines and uppers have been apart of baseball for 50 years and just last year these were outlawed by Major League Baseball. At that time I was discussing with several people about what to take for work out purposes. I had even discussed with a friend about steroids and their affects along with other supplements like Creatine.

Peace

Rut , however you validate your acceptance on ANY athlete, and possibly yourself ,to take performance enhancements is your perogative.

I have never had to convince myself or my body that it was necessary in ANY sport or atheletic event I participated in. IMO there is still a majority that feel the same way and will never accept those that do.

Just my opinion.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Of course you failed to mention that Barry doesn't play the next day game after a night game. He also missed almost the entire 2006 season. I'm willing to say Fisk played in more games and had more at bats. I'll also go on record that Fisk didn't walk near as much as Bonds.

I suppose you think Bonds just started drinking milk like those kids in those old commercials.

"Got flax seed?"

Fisk was a catcher. I seriously doubt that Fisk played every single day at his age. Actually I can pretty much guarantee that Fisk did not play every day at that time. He ended his career as a White Sox mostly so I can remember that his production had dropped off big time by the age of 40. As it relates to Bonds only in the last two seasons Bonds' schedule has been like this. After all Bonds' missed most of last season with a knee injury, he has been relatively healthy this season. But remember there has been testing for about 3 season and Bonds has never failed a steroids test. So we can assume all we like, but the only test he failed was for amphetamines which does not carry the same penalties and is largely accepted in the Major League community. Last time I checked the reason amphetamines have been a long used baseball drug and was even provided very openly but for some reason that is not "performance enhancing." And basically the affects are similar. Any drug that allows you to perform or feel "up to it" the next day after you are tired is just as performance enhancing as any other drug. All Steroids do is help you work out more and push the limit to lift more weights. Steroids do not make you hit the ball better or change your swing.

Peace

[SAump]

There is this animal product available through a local vetenarian or pet supply store that will help Barry play every day. The product is safe and effective and has been used after every major horse race event in the country.

The human version was endorsed by a MLB veteran who plays tennis in retirement. His commercials ran on TV every night about 10 years ago. Athletic trainers have been known to use the product on their clients. Many people swear, "Its the balm."