3 Mechanics Question

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

But if PU hustles and gets up the line to help or just because then ... there are plenty of times the PU can go up 3BL to help out - that's when BU needs to roll home, unless you have a trailing runner that you are responsible for.

The plate umpire does not go up the third base line to "help out." I hate it when I am working the bases, and some over-eager PU is up the line by 3rd base on plays when he doesn't have a play at 3rd responsibility.

The PU should not be in the "library" unless he has a possible assignment at third base. Otherwise, he should stay at home. The only time he should venture up the 3rd base line is when he has a play. These are those plays:

1) Runner from 1st to 3rd, with both ball and runner coming to third. If either ball or runner not going to third, he goes home.

2) When there is a rundown between 2nd and 3rd, or between home and 3rd if multiple runners and he has the runner by himself.

3) The advance on tag-ups with R1 and R2, he has R2 advancing to 3rd.

4) When BU in A goes out on a ball down the RF line, and the PU has the BR all the way to 3rd.

Other than these examples, the PU should stay put.

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Yep - unless BU is able to position himself to make that call (and let you know he's got it) AND still be able to be in position to get home for that play. Best bet...That's why your called the Field or Base umpire - you better get it.

Unless the PU is incapacitated, such as knocked unconscious or breaks his leg, the BU should never have to cover the plate from B or C. Only after going out from A does the BU have the assignment of covering home plate.

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Sounds like they better be kicking their horses. PU has got to see the ball - the ball is ALWAYS you first responsibility - so he needs to get into position to get home as the throw is coming and still see the ball clearly - or BU better let him know he's at home (and then PU has to wake up to possibly get to 3B or 2B)

Again, shouldn't be a problem. I don't cover home plate from B or C. PU does not necessarily have to see the ball. If he is hustling home, perhaps the BU could watch the ball, hmmmm.

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

I'm sure I'll take some heat for these answers - that's OK - I'm curious what others say anyway.

Back under the bus, Darien.

[RPatrino]

Man in Blue, where did you get the idea that BU should cover the plate from B or C? I'd be interested to know, because as you have seen, that is a foreign concept here.

Is this a sort of mechanics variation that is used in your area?

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Man in Blue, where did you get the idea that BU should cover the plate from B or C? I'd be interested to know, because as you have seen, that is a foreign concept here.

Is this a sort of mechanics variation that is used in your area?

No, not specifically. Although some do use it. I got it from Paul Nauert (sp?), Jerry Crawford, and Brian Reiley (sp?). I've also read it, I believe, but don't recall off the top of my head where.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

No, not specifically. Although some do use it. I got it from Paul Nauert (sp?), Jerry Crawford, and Brian Reiley (sp?). I've also read it, I believe, but don't recall off the top of my head where.

When was the last time any of these guys worked two-man mechanics?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

When was the last time any of these guys worked two-man mechanics?

There's a good chance I'll have contact with at least one of those umpires in the next month or so. I'll certainly inquire into why they taught this mechanic.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by GarthB

There's a good chance I'll have contact with at least one of those umpires in the next month or so. I'll certainly inquire into why they taught this mechanic.

Good thing you mentioned that the PU only gets R2 at third "if he tags" only if there is an R1... I've been covering when there is an R2 only. Time to fix that!!

Once again, Garth makes me a better umpire, little by little. haha

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Good thing you mentioned that the PU only gets R2 at third "if he tags" only if there is an R1... I've been covering when there is an R2 only. Time to fix that!!

Once again, Garth makes me a better umpire, little by little. haha

What, am I on your Ignore List? It seems I said the same thing just before Garth did.

Throw me a frickin' bone, people.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Good thing you mentioned that the PU only gets R2 at third "if he tags" only if there is an R1... I've been covering when there is an R2 only. Time to fix that!!

Once again, Garth makes me a better umpire, little by little. haha

Yes Garth is a great resource! (edited) As is SDS
But what flaws do you have on other basic mechanics?
It may be a long time before the Garth compilation of posts includes all 2 man mechanics. It may be time to read a book.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

When was the last time any of these guys worked two-man mechanics?

Brian Reilly worked some 2-man at least as recently as 2006. I'd bet the farm, though, that any reference he may have made to what maninblue described was a response to some third-world situation.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Publius

Brian Reilly worked some 2-man at least as recently as 2006. I'd bet the farm, though, that any reference he may have made to what maninblue described was a response to some third-world situation.

I'll admit I don't know Brian Reilly from Charles Nelson Reilly.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I'll admit I don't know Brian Reilly from Charles Nelson Reilly.

Brian isn't dead.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by Publius

Brian Reilly worked some 2-man at least as recently as 2006. I'd bet the farm, though, that any reference he may have made to what maninblue described was a response to some third-world situation.

Sorry for the double post - I could remember who had posted this...

Anyway - Paul did fungos on the field with us and stressed PU getting to 3B when he could.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Sorry for the double post - I could remember who had posted this...

Anyway - Paul did fungos on the field with us and stressed PU getting to 3B when he could.

I would be surprised if he didn't mean to get to 3rd when you are supposed to get there. Like "get there when you can on plays you are supposed to cover third," or words to that effect.

[ManInBlue]

I knew I'd catch some heat - but hey that's life.

However, the get to 3B to help out idea was taught at a clinic by professional umpires that have several years experience and are instructors at Wendelstat's. You don't have to like it, or even agree with it. I'll take the crap for my answers on the other two situations, but on this one I'm standing my ground.

I may have had my situations mixed, but w/R2 only or with R1 and R2 why can't PU get to 3B (not discussing the fly ball to F9 going toward the line - that's his first priority and he needs to stay on the line). With R1 and R2 he does need to get down there (of course BU isn't going home in this sitch either).

Admittedly with only one runner, BU has nothing else to do. That's not my point. My point is simply that if your PU busts his @$$ to get to third to help you, then you can bust your @$$ to help him. Does he have to go, no, but IF he does then...

Anyway, it is a mechanic taught by the pros for two man mechanics.

Throw me under the bus (as Steve so politely pointed out ) - I don't care, I have a reserved seat, AC and a good view.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Anyway, it is a mechanic taught by the pros for two man mechanics.

No, it's not. I think you have the "set-up" confused. Neither Evans nor Wendlestedt nor PBUC teaches, in two man, to have PU cover third with R2 only, nor do any of them teach BU covering home when starting on the grass.

You or your memory are mistaken.

According to one of organizations I listed above, what they might "talk about", but still never teach, is that if the PU F-ed up and went to third when he wasn't supposed to, and the BU can bail his sorry a$$ out without giving up a runner, he could do so. But, they emphasized, it would never be an approved mechanic, a taught mechanic or in anyway pre-planned.