Voluntary Release Play...

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Your only problem was timing. Make sure you know where the ball is before making the call.

The problem wasn't timing, my problem was literally not seeing the play. It wasn't that I had my mind made up before I had processed it all, its that my eyes were literally incapable of seeing part of the play.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Originally Posted by fitump56
No view = ask partner.



He clearly said he had "no view" of the play.

No view = ask partner. I don't see why not.

If it makes you feel better he told me in the parking lot that he had no view of it and had already turned to watch R3's break from home.

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I guess maybe its just a pitfall of a 2 man system, but I don't feel confident going to bed chalking up that excuse.

A 4 man system would not be any better because you would still be in the same spot with the same view. From what you have described I have a drop, SAFE. Stop agonizing over it...

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by DG

A 4 man system would not be any better because you would still be in the same spot with the same view. From what you have described I have a drop, SAFE. Stop agonizing over it...

In four man, U2 would be closer to the play. They can also work inside at a deep "C". I think the whole problem centers from being in "B" with a R1 and R3.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The problem wasn't timing, my problem was literally not seeing the play. It wasn't that I had my mind made up before I had processed it all, its that my eyes were literally incapable of seeing part of the play.

It happens. X-ray goggles aren't standard umpiring gear.

Just don't make it a habit.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by fitump56
No view = ask partner.

He clearly said he had "no view" of the play.

No view = ask partner. I don't see why not.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If it makes you feel better he told me in the parking lot that he had no view of it and had already turned to watch R3's break from home.

But you didn't know that until after the game. The guys I work with, if they had a different call, a glance or a hand sign, me to partner or partner to me, we would be on the same page immediately. You may not have that luxury.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The problem wasn't timing, my problem was literally not seeing the play. It wasn't that I had my mind made up before I had processed it all, its that my eyes were literally incapable of seeing part of the play.

Four magic words if you're unsure - SHOW ME THE BALL

[DG]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

In four man, U2 would be closer to the play. They can also work inside at a deep "C". I think the whole problem centers from being in "B" with a R1 and R3.

Hogwash. You still can't see through a player regardless of shallow B vs deep C (assuming U2 would be in deep C vs. deep B).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

Hogwash. You still can't see through a player regardless of shallow B vs deep C (assuming U2 would be in deep C vs. deep B).

While I agree you can't see through a player, in *this particular play* the infielder turned toward "C" to make the throw (as would most middle infielders since most are right handed). An umpire in C would have a better view of *this play* than would an umpire in B.

At some point, umpires are going to get blocked out, so we need to move to get the best angle for the play that happens. Can't always do it.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Four magic words if you're unsure - SHOW ME THE BALL

Exactly!!

Especially on a steal, if I have any doubt as to where the ball is, I immediately yell, "Show me the ball!!". If the defence raises their glove with the ball then I have an out otherwise save.

The beauty of this is that it tells both benches that I saw the play and have an out but only if the defensive player maintained control of the ball.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

While I agree you can't see through a player, in *this particular play* the infielder turned toward "C" to make the throw (as would most middle infielders since most are right handed). An umpire in C would have a better view of *this play* than would an umpire in B.

At some point, umpires are going to get blocked out, so we need to move to get the best angle for the play that happens. Can't always do it.

This is the exact reason I am moving twards the top of the mound cutout on a ball hit in the infield. A couple of steps in , pivot and you have a great view. Staying in the "B", and depending how close you are to the infield grassline, will get you into this type of trouble. Go to the mound and adjust accordingly. This has worked for me. Not being locked into one spot.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Four magic words if you're unsure - SHOW ME THE BALL

But he wasn't unsure--the ball was clearly on the ground. The only question is how it got there, and asking the fielder to SHOW ME THE BALL doesn't help at this point.

Personally, if I didn't know how the ball got to the ground, safe is the only call I can make.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by jicecone

This is the exact reason I am moving twards the top of the mound cutout on a ball hit in the infield. A couple of steps in , pivot and you have a great view. Staying in the "B", and depending how close you are to the infield grassline, will get you into this type of trouble. Go to the mound and adjust accordingly. This has worked for me. Not being locked into one spot.

The OP was a double-steal situation, not a hit in the infield.

[PeteBooth]

TussAgee11]I'm in B, runners on 1st and 3rd.

In a 2 person system we cannot be everywhere but in the future, try experimenting with the "C" position. I know this all depends upon the protocol that is followed in one's area but from my experience, you get a much better look on plays such as yours and in addition steal attempts as well. You are less prone to get 'blocked out" by a fielder.

The contra to this is "what about the pick-off attempt by F1 from C. IMO, you can still get a good angle on the pick-off from "C". Therefore, if possible experiment with "C" and see if you get a "better look" on these type plays. Also, for the most part summer ball should be about trying new things either a new plate stance or a change in mechanics etc.

Pete Booth

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by celebur

But he wasn't unsure--the ball was clearly on the ground. The only question is how it got there, and asking the fielder to SHOW ME THE BALL doesn't help at this point.

Personally, if I didn't know how the ball got to the ground, safe is the only call I can make.

Not to bash Tuss on this, I think we've all done something similar at some point, but from his own words he started to signal 'safe' but then saw the ball on the ground. He wasn't 'unsure', he was simply wrong.

Timing, timing, timing. See the ball. If you don't see it ask for it. The extra second or two makes all the difference in the world. One play/one call. If the fielder can't produce the ball you signal safe and sell it, if needed, by stating that the fielder does not have possession of the ball.