Voluntary Release Play...

[David B]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Originally Posted by fitump56
No view = ask partner.



He clearly said he had "no view" of the play.

No view = ask partner. I don't see why not.

He did have a view of the play - he just didn't see the ball - if the fielder dropped in transfer how could the coach see that anyway - he's 100 feet away.

Ignore the coach and make the call. Bob has the right viewpoint as far as terminology.

As far as the second part of the post above, nothing needs to be said as it makes no sense at all.

Bottomline, its not my job to call strikes 90 feet away and its not PU's job to make a call at second base that he wasn't looking at anyway.

Thanks
David

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by David B

He did have a view of the play - he just didn't see the ball - if the fielder dropped in transfer how could the coach see that anyway - he's 100 feet away.

OK, one last tims, specifically quoting the OP who himslef has said this 3X in this thread.

"The problem wasn't timing, my problem was literally not seeing the play. It wasn't that I had my mind made up before I had processed it all, its that my eyes were literally incapable of seeing part of the play."

Ignore the coach and make the call.

Never said you should be concerned about the coach just no view = ask partner.

[PeteBooth]

=TussAgee11]

I see a good tag, a bit of possession, and start to come up from my set with an OUT call. However, the next thing I see is the ball in the legs of the runner who is lying on the ground. I call SAFE emphatically and point at the ground.

What does "bit of possession" mean" ? Either the fielder demonstrated possession or he didn't and that's your judgement.

Sounds like you didn't "allow the entire" play to go to it's conclusion. From the "strict" reading of what happened, I have a Safe call. Also, did you take your eyes off the play at any time?

Pete Booth

[TussAgee11]

I didn't take my eyes off the play, which is the only reason I saw the ball on the ground in the first place.

The problem was I was in B and as the fielder pivoted to make a potential throw home I was looking at his back. Therefore, if and when his hands came together, and the ball was being transferred, I would have missed it. To me it seemed odd that I would have that happen, and never see the ball on its way to the ground, unless his legs were blocking me out of that.

My last piece of evidence was that the ball didn't come flying out, as it typically does on a transfer.

All my evidence was completely circumstantial, because I never saw the ball come of the glove in the first place, or knew when it happened (I know I first saw it on the ground when the fielder had already pivoted to make a throw home).

I guess maybe its just a pitfall of a 2 man system, but I don't feel confident going to bed chalking up that excuse.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I didn't take my eyes off the play, which is the only reason I saw the ball on the ground in the first place.

The problem was I was in B and as the fielder pivoted to make a potential throw home I was looking at his back. Therefore, if and when his hands came together, and the ball was being transferred, I would have missed it. To me it seemed odd that I would have that happen, and never see the ball on its way to the ground, unless his legs were blocking me out of that.

My last piece of evidence was that the ball didn't come flying out, as it typically does on a transfer.

All my evidence was completely circumstantial, because I never saw the ball come of the glove in the first place, or knew when it happened (I know I first saw it on the ground when the fielder had already pivoted to make a throw home).

I guess maybe its just a pitfall of a 2 man system, but I don't feel confident going to bed chalking up that excuse.

Your only problem was timing. Make sure you know where the ball is before making the call.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Your only problem was timing. Make sure you know where the ball is before making the call.

The problem wasn't timing, my problem was literally not seeing the play. It wasn't that I had my mind made up before I had processed it all, its that my eyes were literally incapable of seeing part of the play.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The problem wasn't timing, my problem was literally not seeing the play. It wasn't that I had my mind made up before I had processed it all, its that my eyes were literally incapable of seeing part of the play.

It happens. X-ray goggles aren't standard umpiring gear.

Just don't make it a habit.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The problem wasn't timing, my problem was literally not seeing the play. It wasn't that I had my mind made up before I had processed it all, its that my eyes were literally incapable of seeing part of the play.

Four magic words if you're unsure - SHOW ME THE BALL

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I guess maybe its just a pitfall of a 2 man system, but I don't feel confident going to bed chalking up that excuse.

A 4 man system would not be any better because you would still be in the same spot with the same view. From what you have described I have a drop, SAFE. Stop agonizing over it...

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by DG

A 4 man system would not be any better because you would still be in the same spot with the same view. From what you have described I have a drop, SAFE. Stop agonizing over it...

In four man, U2 would be closer to the play. They can also work inside at a deep "C". I think the whole problem centers from being in "B" with a R1 and R3.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

In four man, U2 would be closer to the play. They can also work inside at a deep "C". I think the whole problem centers from being in "B" with a R1 and R3.

Hogwash. You still can't see through a player regardless of shallow B vs deep C (assuming U2 would be in deep C vs. deep B).

[PeteBooth]

TussAgee11]I'm in B, runners on 1st and 3rd.

In a 2 person system we cannot be everywhere but in the future, try experimenting with the "C" position. I know this all depends upon the protocol that is followed in one's area but from my experience, you get a much better look on plays such as yours and in addition steal attempts as well. You are less prone to get 'blocked out" by a fielder.

The contra to this is "what about the pick-off attempt by F1 from C. IMO, you can still get a good angle on the pick-off from "C". Therefore, if possible experiment with "C" and see if you get a "better look" on these type plays. Also, for the most part summer ball should be about trying new things either a new plate stance or a change in mechanics etc.

Pete Booth

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

In a 2 person system we cannot be everywhere but in the future, try experimenting with the "C" position. I know this all depends upon the protocol that is followed in one's area but from my experience, you get a much better look on plays such as yours and in addition steal attempts as well. You are less prone to get 'blocked out" by a fielder.

I think B is much better in this situation.
In B F6 is facing you, ball is between you and f6.
In C f6 can easily get body betwwen you and ball. In fact a good f6 will block you out if the throw is going to beat r1.
In the OP f6 would have staightened up after the tag, turned inside toward home preparing to throw. That turn to the inside would be a perfect view from b. If F6 had the ball at that point Tuss would have very easily seen the voluntary release.
The only issue on this play is timing not positioning.