Umpire mechanics question

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I agree that 3 man mechanics are quite nice if you are used to them. Randomly grab 3 2-man mechanic umpires and throw them on the field and the result is not always good.

Wow. I didn't expect my question to cause such a stir. But since three-man is only used during the playoffs in FED, it makes sense why there is the occasional problem.

In the ten playoff games I broadcasted this past season, the OP sitch was the only time there was a clusterflop. The runner tagged second (I don't know if he left early or not, I was watching the ball) and headed to third. The ball beat the runner and was tagged before his foot hit third base as he slid. None of the umpires made a call. I kid you not, they just stood around looking at each other. Even the batting team's HC told me after the game the runner was out. The defense then appealed to second that the runner left early and the runner was then called out. Maybe a make up...I don't know.

I was just curious because I am not familiar at all with three-man mechanics as I normally broadcast so few playoff games. In all ten games, this was the ONLY screwup I saw. The rest of that game and all the others went smoothly as far as the officiating went. I even got to call a perfect game...except the kid that threw it was for the other team.

Thanks for all the input.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

But since three-man is only used during the playoffs in FED, it makes sense why there is the occasional problem.

This is a misconception stemming from a mistaken thought that the NFHS is a sponsoring authority of the games played under its rules. The state associations are the sponsoring authorities and decide on the number of officials for the playoffs. As often as not, the schools decide for themselves how many to hire for the regular season. I know of at least one conference that mandates 3 man crews for regular season conference games.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

FitUmp56 also posts under Steven Tyler, and used to post under PWL. He also apparently has an imaginary friend called Donovan. The names "Wayne" and "Paul" have come up too, I think. All of these different personas are noted for making and then deleting posts. He is also known for answering his own posts by using a different persona

It sure would be simpler if he only used one username to post. Sybil would be kinda apt.

http://www.fright.com/edge/sybil.html

Btw, I don't think that FitUmp56/StevenTyler/PWL/Wayne/Paul has ever been seen in the same room as Old School either.

Also btw, he is also a key member of the legendary on-line on-going feud that rivals the Hatfields and McCoys. He and his various personalities are on one side and BigUmp56/SanDiegoSteve are on the other side. It's kinda like Days Of Our Lives and it's lasted just about as long too, spanning several message boards.

Tune in daily. You never know what you might miss. You have to get there before the moderators though, or you'll miss about 50% of the posts.

It's true, it's true......

You don't have the players right. I can PM you (actually tried, but you don't accept PMs) with the official Days of Our Lives at OF Scorecard. Can't tell the players without a scorecard. The truth shall set you free!

Turn your PM acceptance back on, and I will forward the 411.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

You don't have the players right. I can PM you (actually tried, but you don't accept PMs) with the official Days of Our Lives at OF Scorecard. Can't tell the players without a scorecard. The truth shall set you free!

Turn your PM acceptance back on, and I will forward the 411.

Steve, I'm really not sure that I want to know the truth.

Sybil is one scary dude.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by fitump56
See other posts, asked and answered Bob.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As a point of posting etiquette -- there's no need to repsond to each and every post, especially when you're making the same point.

Which is why I said "See other posts, Bob. Look, all in all, I don't think you have treated me unfairly and if I have come off as such, I apologize. It's simply not the case.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

This is a misconception stemming from a mistaken thought that the NFHS is a sponsoring authority of the games played under its rules. The state associations are the sponsoring authorities and decide on the number of officials for the playoffs. As often as not, the schools decide for themselves how many to hire for the regular season. I know of at least one conference that mandates 3 man crews for regular season conference games.

Point taken and I believe you are correct. Sadly, the wealthiest HS ball schools/teams don't put out for that money, IME.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, I meant PBUC (or any other mechanics used in leagues that use OBR). The point is, you criticised a specific coverage under FED mechanics, when the coverage is the same under all (large-diamond) mechanics. What would you propose instead?

Fair enough, I guess I would propose that regardless of the mechanc, get umps used to calling 3 Man. I don't see this as a mechanic sitch. Did I answer your question, I am not trying to dodge it.

On this topic, I generally agree. "Competent" two-person mechanics are better than "incompetent" three-person mechanics. And, if the individuals don't have the proper training, the time to get it is NOT during the most important games. Still, that sounds like a problem with your area / association than with any specific mechanics or plan to use 3 umpires during the playoffs. Many areas provide that training during the season.

Yes, it is an area issue, but no one teaches squat around here anyway (off soapbox). There is absolutely no good reason that 3 man can't be tried and trued before post season, none. This is my fundemantal complaint, it's not against 3 Man, it's exposing the ridiculousness of not having the proper prep and education well before post season.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Yes, it is an area issue, but no one teaches squat around here anyway (off soapbox). There is absolutely no good reason that 3 man can't be tried and trued before post season, none. This is my fundemantal complaint, it's not against 3 Man, it's exposing the ridiculousness of not having the proper prep and education well before post season.

If the umpires want more experience, then tell them it's okay to go to a field on a "day off" and volunteer to jump in with the crew assigned and work three-man.

Or, have the association pony up the cash to pay the third umpire on a few games a year.

Get some umpires who are interested in this together and volunteer to work pre-season scrimmages for free.

[David B]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Fair enough, I guess I would propose that regardless of the mechanc, get umps used to calling 3 Man. I don't see this as a mechanic sitch. Did I answer your question, I am not trying to dodge it.



Yes, it is an area issue, but no one teaches squat around here anyway (off soapbox). There is absolutely no good reason that 3 man can't be tried and trued before post season, none. This is my fundemantal complaint, it's not against 3 Man, it's exposing the ridiculousness of not having the proper prep and education well before post season.

We call three man in 80% of our HS games, so its not always an issue here, but even if you call 3 man all season long, there is no reason NOT to cover all of this in pregame.

Its only about a 5 minute conversation and all three man can be covered thoroughly.

The problem is that some people don't want to do a pre-game thus problems.

thansk
David

[scarolinablue]

We only do 3-man crews for HS playoffs, two-man the rest of the regular season. However, we use the preseason scrimmages (we're required to work at least 2 - I usually do 3-4 to shake the rust off) to practice 3-man mechanics.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by fitump56
Fair enough, I guess I would propose that regardless of the mechanc, get umps used to calling 3 Man. I don't see this as a mechanic sitch. Did I answer your question, I am not trying to dodge it.

Yes, it is an area issue, but no one teaches squat around here anyway (off soapbox). There is absolutely no good reason that 3 man can't be tried and trued before post season, none. This is my fundamental complaint, it's not against 3 Man, it's exposing the ridiculousness of not having the proper prep and education well before post season.

Originally Posted by David B

We call three man in 80% of our HS games, so its not always an issue here, but even if you call 3 man all season long, there is no reason NOT to cover all of this in pregame.

Its only about a 5 minute conversation and all three man can be covered thoroughly.

The problem is that some people don't want to do a pre-game thus problems.

thansk
David

No kidding, HS pay for 3 man where you are? I take that back, it's not as much a money issue as it is a personell issue. The numbers of umps aren't there in many places.