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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 04:41pm
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Two umpire system fast pitch, bases loaded (so BU off right shoulder of short stop) how do you call a pick off play at 1st base? I know this happens rarely, but with 2 outs and a sleepy R3 I have seen it a few times, so I know it happens! How do you work this in a 2 ump system? BU should have the call, but PU has a much better angle on the play. Something to cover in pregame discussion with partner.....but I am interested in hearing how you all cover this type of play.
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 04:51pm
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 05:08pm
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Even though it is the BU's call, the plate does have the better angle (IMO). However, I try to treat it the same way I do as a batted ball and throw to first. As soon as I see the catcher start to throw the ball, I'm going to bust inside the diamond and get as close to the play as I can, stop, make the call and then look to see where the next play will take place. More than likely, the R1 on 3B should be on her way home and the throw will go home giving you time to get to the next calling position. If the throw goes from F3 to F5, then I get the best angle I can to make the call at 3B.
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heyblue
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 05:39pm
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My mechanic - three or five steps toward first, followed by a fist in the air swung forward accompanied by a loud "OUT!!!" call. Sell it.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 06:27pm
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This has been mentioned, but I thought I'd just throw one more response to the thread. It's the base umps call, and you are right - the PU does have the best angle. That is, if s/he is paying attention. I will go over this exact thing in my pre-game with my partner, especially if I have not worked with that person much. I want to be sure that the PU knows that I will be taking it (if I'm the BU) and that s/he has to watch it too. As the BU just don't do what my BU partner did to me this weekend. BU in C position, dive back to 3rd and a throw from the catcher. BU is blocked by the 3rd baseman and immediatley calls time and comes to me for the call. Of course, I don't have the angle either. He should have at least made a call, and then discussed it if he felt the need (if asked by coach). Same thing with the call at first that you ask about, make the call, then discuss it if need be.
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Troy ASA/NFHS
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 08:45pm
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Funny you should mention this. Today I saw the same thing while watching a scrimmage on the way home. Quick pick off attempt at first. Throw is off toward 2nd base side. F3 catches and makes a swoop tag attempt. Base ump makes the out call but immediately looks home asking "tag?". Plate guy says "missed her" and field ump immediately says safe. This all happened in a manner of a second or two but both umps were so clean with their mechanics that no one questioned it. It looked good.
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 08:52pm
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BUs call all the way. Yes, the PU has a better angle, but he has too many other things to worry about with the batter and the catcher.
After the pitch is caught by the catcher, the BU should start taking a few steps in to the infield and "read" the catcher. With bases loaded, it is unlikely that a pickoff play will be attempted at second base, much more likely that a play will be attempted at first or third. If the BU is moving, he will have a good 90 degree angle for a play at third. If the play goes to first, he is already moving that way and can get closer to the play and sell the call. This is one of the toughest calls for the BU because of the angle and the distance. Get as close as you can to the play to give the appearance that you are all over it.
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It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 10:21pm
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In this scenario, yes PU would have a better angle & view IF that's where he is watching. But remember that PU has other responsibilities because there is a runner on 3B who may be coming home, may get obstructed, ... BU needs to make the BU's calls. Ask PU for help, if needed, but this should be rare. If PU can help, great - but helping may not be PU's priority if something appears to be happening.
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Steve M
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Tue Mar 14, 2006, 10:47pm
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Plus, this is where the big 5-step sell out call comes in handy. While we don't want to show boat, this dance step let's everyone know that you are 110% sure of the out, and get's you that much closer to the play, giving the impression that you were closer to it than you really were when deciding the runner's fate. That is, if you decide that the runner is out. And, they're always out, right?
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Troy ASA/NFHS
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Wed Mar 15, 2006, 03:05am
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John An ucking fidiot
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Wed Mar 15, 2006, 06:43am
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Little Jimmy, it may have looked good but was done incorrectly. Just as in a possible check swing, if the PU calls a strike they do not go to their partner then. They had to see something that made them think it was a strike so they should stand with the call. Same way with the play you describe. If they called her out, then they saw something that led them to believe she was out and shouldn't go to their partner for help. Dave
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Wed Mar 15, 2006, 08:07am
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I agree, the umpire should see something to call the runner out before making that call. However, maybe the BU did see something that from his perspective that looked like a good tag. Remember, the BU's view is two dimensional, at best.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Wed Mar 15, 2006, 09:23am
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__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Wed Mar 15, 2006, 09:30am
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I see what you are saying but how is that different then like I said previously about the possible check swing that is called a strike by the PU? Maybe from the PU perspective he thought they had offered at the pitch so called it a strike. We are taught in that case not to go to your partner. Just wondering. Dave
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Wed Mar 15, 2006, 02:10pm
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Hopefully, your answer is "after". As the BU, is it your responsibility to be paying attention to the batter or the runner? We've had this discussion on here before. It is easier to correct a mistaken call after all play is finished than prior to and not covering the part of the plays to which you are assigned. Play: Runner on 2B, one out. Slow roller to any infielder. Close play at 1B while R1 rounds 3B & heads toward the plate. Ball barely beats the runner, but the BU isn't sure if F3 held the base. Instead of making a call, s/he points to PU and asks for help. While s/he is pointing to the PU, F3 throws home to get R1. What is the PU supposed to do, pay attention to the BU or the play at hand for which s/he is responsible? You need to remember that each umpire has their own primary responsibilities. What if the PU was picking up the runner rounding 3B and didn't see the play at 1B? The BU is going to get a load from either coach, because there has been no call made. The runner rounding 3B is the priority as they are much closer to scoring a run, so that is where the umpire's attention should be. Kick a call at 1B and the runner still has three more bases to touch before a score.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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