Legal or not??

[jhelbling]

Coach of 10 year old seeking an answer to question.

Runner on 1st

Is RH pitcher allowed to lift front leg up (straight-not toward home) and spin and throw to 2nd - as if he is trying to pick someone off 2nd even though there is only a runner on 1st?

[mbyron]

No, unless R1 is stealing or bluffing AND the umpire judges that the throw is to make a play on the runner.

Otherwise, throwing to 2B would be a balk for throwing to an unoccupied base.

[jhelbling]

So if the R1 is stealing - then it would be OK.

At our level - the Runner is going pretty much everytime. This would be a way to help control the running game.

If I have my pitcher raise his leg straght up and hold for a second and the R1 attempts a steal - my pitcher can spin and throw to 2nd (as long as he steps toward 2nd before he throws)

[UmpJM]

jhelbling,

Not so fast there!

Originally Posted by jhelbling

If I have my pitcher raise his leg straght (sic) up and hold for a second ...

If he comes to a complete stop during this move, he will have balked for failing to meet the "..without alteration or interruption..." requirement.

If he does it smoothly and continuously - and the runner is advancing to 2B - he is fine.

JM

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by jhelbling

So if the R1 is stealing - then it would be OK.

At our level - the Runner is going pretty much everytime. This would be a way to help control the running game.

If I have my pitcher raise his leg straght up and hold for a second and the R1 attempts a steal - my pitcher can spin and throw to 2nd (as long as he steps toward 2nd before he throws)

Um... probably not ....

Problem is the "hold for a second..." part. One F1 begins his move to pitch or pick, he must continue without interruption. Now, if SOMETHING on F1 remains "in motion" while the leg hangs up, he is technically OK, but relying on LL-level umps to notice that or make the fine distinction required ... risky at best. Have your pitcher do the move without the "hang" when they start to steal - getting the out is far better than detering the attempted steal.

Edit> As usual, JM got there first!

[jhelbling]

Thanks - I understand.

Something to practice. I would not mind giving up a balk if the R1 does not attempt to steal because the % at our level is that they are going to steal. I know we steal EVERY time when on 1st.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by jhelbling

Thanks - I understand.

Something to practice. I would not mind giving up a balk if the R1 does not attempt to steal because the % at our level is that they are going to steal. I know we steal EVERY time when on 1st.

I don't get it: R1 steals 2d vs. F1 balks and R1 is awarded 2d... why do you prefer the balk over the steal?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

I don't get it: R1 steals 2d vs. F1 balks and R1 is awarded 2d... why do you prefer the balk over the steal?

Can't get tagged out on the balk.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

I don't get it: R1 steals 2d vs. F1 balks and R1 is awarded 2d... why do you prefer the balk over the steal?

Let me take a guess having coached my boys at this age: prefer trying a move and having a shot at picking the runner off if I can get away with it, than having someone steal and my catcher (or fielders) misplay the pitch/throw and let the runner go even further. Or, telling my catcher not to throw to 2nd on any steals (for the same reason) and put negative thoughts/criticisms in his head instead of trying something bold like the pickoff move - a positive thing for the players.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Can't get tagged out on the balk.

That'd make sense if he was the OC; his comment seemed to be that he'd prefer HIS F1 to be called for the balk, rather than have R1 steal - THAT's what I don't get.

[waltjp]

Maybe it was the foul ball I took of the mask earlier tonight, but what league is allowing pick off plays with 10-year olds?

[TussAgee11]

USSSA for one allows leading. I believe 10 year-olds play with a 48 foot mound and 60 foot basepaths. They then slowly graduate them to full field at age 14. (70 foot paths at age 12 I think).

I'm sure some umpires in NC, SC, or GA could fill us in on what the actual distances are.

[johnnyV]

If this is Little League (10 yr old kid), then there is no such thing as a balk. I do not have my book handy, but it may meet the definition of an illegal pitch.

[TussAgee11]

johnny - I do believe this would be an illegal pitch, as the pitcher is starting and then not coming to the plate. 1 ball penalty. (I wouldn't kill a 10 year old for anything before I had to lock in though).

[DG]

Originally Posted by jhelbling

At our level - the Runner is going pretty much everytime.

You need a pitchout sign.