Balk Followed by Hit

[cshs81]

R1. Pitcher does not come to a complete stop before pitching. Batter hits the ball and reaches first safely. R1 goes to third on single.

Am I correct that in OBR the single stands and the runner stays on 3rd?

If so, is this the case in FED as well?

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by cshs81

R1. Pitcher does not come to a complete stop before pitching. Batter hits the ball and reaches first safely. R1 goes to third on single.

Am I correct that in OBR the single stands and the runner stays on 3rd?

If so, is this the case in FED as well?

Yes, you are correct. OBR is a delayed dead ball. Continuous play is allowed to take place. If the b/r gets to at least 1st and all runners get to their advance base, the balk is disregarded.

FED is an immediate dead ball.

[tibear]

In OBR a balk is a delayed dead ball situation. If as a result of the pitch, every runner AND the batter advance at least one base then the balk is ignored. Otherwise the pitch is ignored and the balk enforced.

So in your situation, the balk would be ignored because R1 advanced at least to second AND the batter safely reached first.

From what I've seen on this website I believe using the FED rulebook a balk is an immediate deadball situation, so the runner would be advanced to second and the batter remains at the plate.

Difference in rulebooks:

OBR: "That's a balk!.....wait for play to end..(if all runners don't advance at least one base or batter doesn't reach first) TIME!!!!"
FED: "TIME!! That's a balk!"

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tibear

Difference in rulebooks:

OBR: "That's a balk!.....wait for play to end..(if all runners don't advance at least one base or batter doesn't reach first) TIME!!!!"
FED: "TIME!! That's a balk!"

Actually, the more recommended method for FED is "That's a balk...Time!"

This way, your balk call remains consistent when using either rule set.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by tibear

.

Difference in rulebooks:

OBR: "That's a balk!.....wait for play to end..(if all runners don't advance at least one base or batter doesn't reach first) TIME!!!!"
FED: "TIME!! That's a balk!"

Correct.

Calling balks properly when working under FED helps prevent unnecessary discussions.

Callin balks in the same manner under both codes might be helpful to those who can't remember which rule is applicable, but if you still have at least three remaining brain cells functioning, it is an unnecessary crutch.

[newump]

OBR - R1, 3-2 count, balk is called and the pitch delivered is a ball. is the balk ignored? ball 4 puts the BR on 1st and forces R1 on 2nd.

how about the same situation with R2 only? obviously ball 4 would put the BR on first but R2 would not advance. i imagine in this situation the balk would be enforced and the pitch ignored.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by newump

OBR - R1, 3-2 count, balk is called and the pitch delivered is a ball. is the balk ignored? ball 4 puts the BR on 1st and forces R1 on 2nd.

how about the same situation with R2 only? obviously ball 4 would put the BR on first but R2 would not advance. i imagine in this situation the balk would be enforced and the pitch ignored.

You disappoint me. Surely you own a rule book.

OBR 8.05 Penalty

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

[newump]

sorry, i'm in my office and i don't carry my books with me at all times. also can't access mlb.com for the rules.

how about the following...

R2, 3-2 count, ball 4 wild pitch, BR goes to first, R2 goes to 3rd.

or

R2, 3-2 count, strike 3 wild pitch,BR goes to first, R2 goes to 3rd.

does a dropped 3rd strike wild pitch qualify as "or otherwise"?



The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Correct.

Calling balks properly when working under FED helps prevent unnecessary discussions.

Callin balks in the same manner under both codes might be helpful to those who can't remember which rule is applicable, but if you still have at least three remaining brain cells functioning, it is an unnecessary crutch.

There is no "proper" way to call a FED balk. Mechanics are not discussed in the rulebook and the FED mechanics manual is best thrown out when received.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

There is no "proper" way to call a FED balk. Mechanics are not discussed in the rulebook and the FED mechanics manual is best thrown out when received.

C'mon, Rich. You're right about pitching the FED ump manual, but surely FED is entitled to their view concerning the enforcement of their balk rule. We could refer to this as the "proper" way.

Am I missing your larger point? You're not usually one to quibble...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

C'mon, Rich. You're right about pitching the FED ump manual, but surely FED is entitled to their view concerning the enforcement of their balk rule. We could refer to this as the "proper" way.

Am I missing your larger point? You're not usually one to quibble...

Yes, I think you're missing the larger point. Rich is talking about the way the balk is called, not the enforcement of the rule.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Correct.

Calling balks properly when working under FED helps prevent unnecessary discussions.

Callin balks in the same manner under both codes might be helpful to those who can't remember which rule is applicable, but if you still have at least three remaining brain cells functioning, it is an unnecessary crutch.

We just had this discussion in the following thread. Rich suggested the way that I quoted, and I didn't hear that it was a crutch at that time. I don't see it as a "crutch," but as a practical way of doing things.

HS Season over, here comes summer ball

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, I think you're missing the larger point. Rich is talking about the way the balk is called, not the enforcement of the rule.

Exactly. In other words, someone with a FED manual -- does it actually prescribe the words and the order in which they're to be said?

Even if it DOES, it really doesn't matter unless you use the FED mechanics for EVERYTHING else.

[UmpJM]

Rich,

Verbatim from the 2007 FED Umpire Manual (#22 on p.17 for those following along at home):

22. When a balk occurs, the ball is dead immediately. Whenever a balk occurs, the umpire will throw up his hands, which signifies the ball is dead, and call "balk." ...

And you throw this gem away?!?!? I find it makes an excellent coaster.

JM

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

We just had this discussion in the following thread. Rich suggested the way that I quoted, and I didn't hear that it was a crutch at that time. I don't see it as a "crutch," but as a practical way of doing things.

HS Season over, here comes summer ball

Thanks for the URL showing at least I'm consistent.

To me, practical would be to call time immediately in FED to let everyone know that play is over and keep the whining to a minimum should the pitcher pitch and the batter hit the ball.


As I said in the thread you referenced...When I can't remember the code under which I'm working, I'll retire.