partner????? i guess not...

[newump]

are you kidding?

2 man system.

not my call?? please.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by newump

are you kidding?

2 man system.

not my call?? please.

Actually, any INT at 2B on a possible double play ball is the PU's call. You're supposed to be following the ball to 1B.

[Jim Porter]

Okay, well I've been out of baseball for a few years. I guess things have changed.

Back a few years ago the proper mechanic for the plate umpire with R1 on any batted ball was to move up the third base line -- not out to the mound.

Never heard that interference at 2nd is the PU's call. I don't care for that. No reason the BU can't make that call.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

Okay, well I've been out of baseball for a few years. I guess things have changed.

Back a few years ago the proper mechanic for the plate umpire with R1 on any batted ball was to move up the third base line -- not out to the mound.

Never heard that interference at 2nd is the PU's call. I don't care for that. No reason the BU can't make that call.

That's strange Jim, as I've been umpiring since 1986, and at least since then it has always been the plate umpire's call on INT at 2nd base when there is a throw following the play. If F6 had not made the throw to first base, then the call remains with the base umpire. The reason the PU takes the call on a throw is that many times, the INT happens after the throw, when the BU has already turned with the play.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That's strange Jim, as I've been umpiring since 1986, and at least since then it has always been the plate umpire's call on INT at 2nd base when there is a throw following the play. If F6 had not made the throw to first base, then the call remains with the base umpire. The reason the PU takes the call on a throw is that many times, the INT happens after the throw, when the BU has already turned with the play.

Is this a FED thing? How can you have interference that the BU can't see after the throw?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

Is this a FED thing? How can you have interference that the BU can't see after the throw?

No, it's a PBUC thing.

Often contact is made with the pivot man which does not become interference until after the ball has left the fielder's hand, by which time the BU must be turning with the throw for the play at first. Much action happens at this point, and the PU has the responsibility to determine whether or not interference has occurred.

Many times the BU can see the INT, but it still remains the PU's call. If PU doesn't call it and the BU is sure it was INT, then he should by all means go ahead and make the call himself, just as if there were no throw.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No, it's a PBUC thing.
Many times the BU can see the INT, but it still remains the PU's call.

My understanding is that PBUC teaches this as a shared responsibility, either umpire can make the call.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That's strange Jim, as I've been umpiring since 1986, and at least since then it has always been the plate umpire's call on INT at 2nd base when there is a throw following the play. If F6 had not made the throw to first base, then the call remains with the base umpire. The reason the PU takes the call on a throw is that many times, the INT happens after the throw, when the BU has already turned with the play.

Our association utilizes the CCA mechanics. Their description of this play: (With R1, batted ball to the infield) "UIC moves to the third base side of the pitcher's mound to assist U1 with the slide at at second base by R1."

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Our association utilizes the CCA mechanics. Their description of this play: (With R1, batted ball to the infield) "UIC moves to the third base side of the pitcher's mound to assist U1 with the slide at at second base by R1."

Okay, I'm not familiar with CCA mechanics. There were some NCAA umpires in our high school association and I know there were some differences between what we were doing and what they were doing. I remember it was seldom an issue.

Originally Posted by GarthB

My understanding is that PBUC teaches this as a shared responsibility, either umpire can make the call.

This must be a fairly recent change, anyhow. Our UIC was a former pro and he was teaching the mechanics that he learned. We had our own mechanics and interpretations book that everyone referred to as, "the bible." It was NAPBL-era stuff. Shared responsibility on that play is not in the bible, so it was not part of the mechanics when he was working pro ball.

I still don't see how interference could possibly happen in such a way that the BU doesn't see it. But that's okay. I am capable of change.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Actually, any INT at 2B on a possible double play ball is the PU's call. You're supposed to be following the ball to 1B.

Well Don, he said that he was the plate umpire, and the INT at 2nd was his call. The BU is supposed to be following the ball to 1B.

I would not want to work with any umpire who doesn't have the balls to stand up to any game participants. He should have been insuring you a one-on-one conversation with whoever was in charge after each ejection, not standing out at "A" chewing seeds and kicking dandelions. A good partner has your back regardless of what he thinks of your calls on the field.

[newump]

thanks SDS. i was PU, and obviously, it was my call.


if F6 eats the ball and does not make the throw to 1st b/c of the INT - i imagine that call is open to PU or BU - right?

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well Don, he said that he was the plate umpire, and the INT at 2nd was his call. The BU is supposed to be following the ball to 1B.

D'oh...re-read it, and saw I skimmed over the first words. All I saw was "out near the mound," so I guess I assumed he was BU. Guess this round's on me.....

[Jim Porter]

You know, I'm thinking about this even more because I'm perplexed, and I can even remember learning the mechanics quite clearly. Not only was I taught to clear the catcher and move up the third base line as PU, but I was also taught as BU not to drift and anticipate the back-end of the double play so that I would be in position to see and call any possible interference.

I've never heard of a PU clearing the catcher and coming out to the pitcher's mound. I've also never heard that the PU's responsible for interference on the front end of a double play. Both of those are news to me.

Is this a result of me coming from a backward OBR state? Or have I been doing it wrong for 20-something years?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

You know, I'm thinking about this even more because I'm perplexed, and I can even remember learning the mechanics quite clearly. Not only was I taught to clear the catcher and move up the third base line as PU, but I was also taught as BU not to drift and anticipate the back-end of the double play so that I would be in position to see and call any possible interference.

I've never heard of a PU clearing the catcher and coming out to the pitcher's mound. I've also never heard that the PU's responsible for interference on the front end of a double play. Both of those are news to me.

Is this a result of me coming from a backward OBR state? Or have I been doing it wrong for 20-something years?

Jim,

You were never taught the correct mechanic. PU clears F2 to left and drifts up the 3B line (Normal coverage in case R1 goes to 3B on base hit or error, etc). Once the out is made at 2B, PU cuts across toward 1B OR retreats toward HP to cover pulled foot/swipe tag at 1B. PU has interference responsibility at 2B at same time, as BU will have stepped and turned with throw to 1B.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Jim,

You were never taught the correct mechanic. PU clears F2 to left and drifts up the 3B line (Normal coverage in case R1 goes to 3B on base hit or error, etc). Once the out is made at 2B, PU cuts across toward 1B OR retreats toward HP to cover pulled foot/swipe tag at 1B. PU has interference responsibility at 2B at same time, as BU will have stepped and turned with throw to 1B.

I was taught exactly as you described, right up until the part where you said, "PU has interference responsibility at 2B at same time".