Coaches who know umpiring

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

I'll have the coaches I have call your coaches, they missed a few:

1. The tie always goes to the runner.

.

Last time I looked in the rule book, the "tie" does go to the runner. Doesn't say it but specifically but it does say for an out the runner/base must be tagged before they reach the base. "Before" is not the same as "at the same time". Of course some will say that's not possible, there's never a real "tie". Within the limits of human perception there is. Best description is in FED rules
under batter is out - D3K stuation. Don't have my rule book with me, but look it up.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Last time I looked in the rule book, the "tie" does go to the runner. Doesn't say it but specifically but it does say for an out the runner/base must be tagged before they reach the base. "Before" is not the same as "at the same time". Of course some will say that's not possible, there's never a real "tie". Within the limits of human perception there is. Best description is in FED rules
under batter is out - D3K stuation. Don't have my rule book with me, but look it up.

True enough. But, for other runners, they are out if they fail to touch the base before the fielder tags the base. (8-4-2j). So here, the "tie goes to the fielder."

OBR is the same way (iirc -- I do know that the rule at first and the rule at other bases are opposites).

I think JR has this as one of the 234 contradictions in the rules.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Last time I looked in the rule book, the "tie" does go to the runner. Doesn't say it but specifically but it does say for an out the runner/base must be tagged before they reach the base. "Before" is not the same as "at the same time". Of course some will say that's not possible, there's never a real "tie". Within the limits of human perception there is. Best description is in FED rules
under batter is out - D3K stuation. Don't have my rule book with me, but look it up.

At best there's a contradiction in the wording of the rules. Either way, there are no ties.

FED 8-4-1
The batter-runner is out when:
f. after a dropped third strike (see 8-4-1e) or a fair hit, if the ball held by any fielder touches the batter before the batter touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball in his grasp, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base: or

FED 8-4-2
Any runner is out when he:
i. does not retouch his base before a fielder tags him out or holds the ball while touching such base after any situation

j. fails to reach the next base before a fielder either tags the runner out or holds the ball while touching such base, after runner has been forced from the base he occupied because the batter became a runner (with ball in play) when other runners were on first base, or on first and second, or on first, second and third. There shall be no accidental appeals on a force play.

(edited to add 8-4-2 j as pointed out by Bob J.)

[WhiteHat Ref]

There is an old saying that the tie goes to the runner, however what I was taught years ago when I started umpiring, is that the tie goes to the umpire and call the runner out. This way keeps the game moving.

[lawump]

I am NOT a physics major...nor have I tested this. But I was taught by a umpire who subsequently became an MLBer that:

If the umpire perceives a "tie" at first (that is he sees B/R's foot hit the base at the same instant he hears the ball pop into the glove of F3 (or whomever)) it actually isn't a tie.

Why?

Because light travels faster than sound. Since the sound of the ball hitting the glove took longer to reach your ear than the time needed for the light to travel to see the play at first, if you perceived them to occur at the same time, the sound of the ball hitting the glove actually occurred first. Thus, call the runner out.

Now, I have sat in outfield bleachers and watched a game and have clearly noticed (as I'm sure we all have) that the "Ping" sound of the ball hitting the bat reaches us significantly after the actual contact was visually seen.

However, I'm not sure if I'm buying that the difference in velocity is great enough to make a difference (considering where BU is standing) for a play at first. But maybe it does...as I said I'm no physics major.

But in any event: I love the theory: Call the B/R OUT!

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Last time I looked in the rule book, the "tie" does go to the runner. Doesn't say it but specifically but it does say for an out the runner/base must be tagged before they reach the base. "Before" is not the same as "at the same time". Of course some will say that's not possible, there's never a real "tie". Within the limits of human perception there is. Best description is in FED rules
under batter is out - D3K stuation. Don't have my rule book with me, but look it up.

I'm in the percentile that believes there are no ties. When in doubt, go with the out.

[DG]

Originally Posted by lawump

However, I'm not sure if I'm buying that the difference in velocity is great enough to make a difference (considering where BU is standing) for a play at first. But maybe it does...as I said I'm no physics major.

Light travels much faster than sound so if it looks and sounds like a tie, it's an out. Of course quality of the play is a bit of a factor also. Good plays are rewarded and bad plays are not. It's physcological and I have never had an argument on a safe call on a defensive play that was poorly made and it is rare to have an argument on an out call on a defensive gem.

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by BigTex

Please tell me you are joking.

Nope! And I wouldn't of done this if it was a high school game. This was a little 10 year old game!

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by budjones05

Nope! And I wouldn't of done this if it was a high school game. This was a little 10 year old game!

you could just become a clown instead of an umpire. its probably easier to entertain 10 year olds that way.

[JR12]

A tie is what you buy your Dad for Fathers Day.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by kylejt

The other one can't wait to pounce on the lesser skilled umpire. Miss a rotation, didn't see a missed base, miss the OBS at first, two guys at one base, you're going to hear about it.

I was not at the game, but we had a high school coach ejected for this. His team was on defense, there was a close play at the plate, and the runner was called out. He came out to berate the umpire for being out of position for the call and ended up getting ejected. $250.00 fine and a two game suspension.

I have not had an opportunity to talk with the umpire involved, and I suspect the "discussion" went into areas best left alone, but if he had not come out to "discuss" the alleged poor positioning, he might have still been around at the end of the game.

Pretty hefty penalty for making a point.

[ozzy6900]

Tie goes to the umpire!!!!!!!!!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I was not at the game, but we had a high school coach ejected for this. His team was on defense, there was a close play at the plate, and the runner was called out. He came out to berate the umpire for being out of position for the call and ended up getting ejected. $250.00 fine and a two game suspension.

I have not had an opportunity to talk with the umpire involved, and I suspect the "discussion" went into areas best left alone, but if he had not come out to "discuss" the alleged poor positioning, he might have still been around at the end of the game.

Pretty hefty penalty for making a point.

Based on your description, you have no idea why the coach was ejected. So your assessment that the penalty was for "making a point" has no basis in fact, as far as you know.

I hope you don't throw your partners under the bus so readily.

[aceholleran]

1. On an infield fly, the ball is dead.
2. A caught pop-up to the catcher in foul territory must go over the batter's head to be considered an out.
3. HBP + batter swings and misses. "HE GETS FIRST!"
4. In LL, the defense can make a standard appeal play to put out a runner who left early on the pitch.
5. "What verbal obstruction? My player just yelled 'FOUL' to the runner."
6. Darkness halts a regulation-length game where a winner can be determined. Losing coach: "Don't worry, gang, we're coming back tomorrow to finish this."
7. When base coacher fails to avoid F3 fielding a foul pop-up, it is not INT. "He was trying to get out the way."
8. "It's the base he's headed to, plus one."
9. Batter-runners must turn to the right after crossing first.
10. "HE'S ALWAYS GOTTA SLIDE!"
11. "You mean I gotta say which runner I'm appealing?"
12. "The ball hit the runner--he's automatically out."
13. "If he trows [this is not a typo] his bat, he's out."

Lucky number, so I'll stop there. For the right amount, I could go well into triple figures.

Ace

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Based on your description, you have no idea why the coach was ejected. So your assessment that the penalty was for "making a point" has no basis in fact, as far as you know.

I hope you don't throw your partners under the bus so readily.

I stated three facts.
1. The call went in favor of the coach.
2. He came out to berate the umpire for his positioning, even though the call went in his favor.
3. He was ejected.

Where did I throw anyone "under the bus"? I said nothing about the ejection not being warranted. I was pointing out the stupidity of a coach coming out to argue mechanics when the call went in his favor.

Edited: In re-reading my originaly post, I realized my statement about the hefty penalty could be mis-understood to mean that I was opposed to the ejection. I have no idea why he was ejected, and knowing the umpire involved, the coach was given every opportunity to stay in the game. I apologize if I gave the impression I disagreed with the ejection.