Critique, Please

[CraigD]

Thanks for the replies guys.

It's interesting that so many of you concluded that our league is out of control when we have had a total of ONE incident (the one described) in 6 years of operation. The truth is, umpiring this league is quite simple, other than suffering through a lot of bad baseball and the pay isn't so good.

Some of you directly or indirectly questioned my grasp of reality, but never enquired why I think the pitchers weren't throwing at this particular batter. The main reason is that none of the three pitches were more than 6 inches inside. The batter was hit on an extended elbow all three times. He moved just enough to meet the demands of the "must make an effort" rule.

Beyond that, I know these players well. Some will scoff that I only think I know them well, but our baseball community is very small and those who are active wear many hats. We don't have the luxury of having an umpire community that is separate from coaching or playing, so we all know each other very well.

I appreciate the replies and agree that I should have given a warning sooner - probably after the second occurance, perhaps after the first, in spite of the fact that I'm certain they weren't throwing at him intentionally. And that was the real point of my enquiry: If I didn't think they were intentionally throwing at the batter should I still give a warning?

Mr. Booth, the reason that no one filed suit is that Israel isn't America and people don't usually run to court because they had an argument with someone. We don't have jury trials here, so we don't have the kinds of outrageous awards that seem to be regularly handed out in the US, thus people are less inclined to run to court.

Garth, the sky in my world is generally blue unless the winds are coming in from the desert or buildings have been bombed and are burning. In the case of the former, the sky is a dusty orange. In the latter, it's kind of smokey grey. And, no the sky is not falling as some of my fellow umpires seem to think.

Mr. Patrino, I considered finding work elsewhere, but the leagues in Gaza and Lebanon have suspended their schedules so the boys can kill each other in civil wars.

Mr. Jenkins, how would you have addressed the situation without giving an official warning? What would you say, and to whom? Thanks for your previous thoughts.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CraigD

Mr. Jenkins, how would you have addressed the situation without giving an official warning? What would you say, and to whom? Thanks for your previous thoughts.

A lot depends on my relationship with the teams, and how well they (both sides) think this has been handled up to this point.

So, I might say to the catcher, "I heard you had some problems last game. I trust this has now made it even and it ends here."

I might toss the ball back to the pitcher and say in a pointed tone, "That just slipped. Right?"

Or, I might warn right away.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=CraigD]Thanks for the replies guys.

Mr. Booth, the reason that no one filed suit is that Israel isn't America and people don't usually run to court because they had an argument with someone. We don't have jury trials here, so we don't have the kinds of outrageous awards that seem to be regularly handed out in the US, thus people are less inclined to run to court.

You did not mention an argument

here's what you said

Player rushes on to field with a bat.

In the US a bat (not used for it's intended purpose meaning to hit a baseball) can be classified as a weapon especially when someone is mad. It's no different than a knife or a gun. This is not the normal type argument that you have in a baseball game. When someone rushes onto the field with a bat IMO that's serious business. This is not about some frivilous award that you are referring to.

When I said file charges I meant criminal charges.

If you tolerate a player rushing onto the field with a bat that's your business. Hopefully, in the future no official will be hurt because some wanna be has been takes his frustrations out on the official with a bat.

Pete Booth

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

You did not mention an argument

I did mention an argument - I described what happened prior to the bat being brought onto the field.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

In the US a bat (not used for it's intended purpose meaning to hit a baseball) can be classified as a weapon especially when someone is mad. It's no different than a knife or a gun. This is not the normal type argument that you have in a baseball game. When someone rushes onto the field with a bat IMO that's serious business. This is not about some frivilous award that you are referring to.

When I said file charges I meant criminal charges.

My point was that, Israel isn't the United States. Then I tried to contrast one of the ways we are different: In my opinion, the United States has become an overly litigious society and at even the slightest offense people run to the police or courts to complain. I think much of this is the result of bizzare financial rewards handed out by juries. (I know there are some lawyers in this community and they may have a different opinion.) Israelis, in general, are much less prone to go to court or the police (therefore, by default, I consider them more tolerant), and I think this is a result of having only judges hear cases. It's not a perfect system, but it is what we have here.

The culture here tends to be more animated and what is considered a normal conversation, would be considered an argument or worse in the USA.

NOTE: I'm not suggesting that brandishing a baseball bat is a normal part of discourse, even here. However, an interesting contrast between our two worlds is that, to my knowledge, no one at the game considered calling the police to manage this situation. It was an "in house" issue. Clearly, some thought the one game suspension was too light, but they were mainly on the opposing team.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

If you tolerate a player rushing onto the field with a bat that's your business. Hopefully, in the future no official will be hurt because some wanna be has been takes his frustrations out on the official with a bat.
Pete Booth

Hold on Pete, I never said I tolerate a player rushing onto the field. Disagree with me, but don't try to make me something I'm not. I wasn't at the game when the player brought the bat onto the field, so I had nothing to do with that incident.

Not in the incident under discussion nor, to my knowledge, any other time has a baseball umpire in Israel felt physically threatened. Thankfully, that's not our world. Yet. We have other problems, but assualts on umpires hasn't yet become one of them.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by CraigD

I did mention an argument - I described what happened prior to the bat being brought onto the field.

Thank God



Right from the OP

[QUOTE]The pitcher bolted from the mound toward the coach and was tackled by his third baseman. Shortly after A got their pitcher to the dugout, he ran back onto the field with a bat,

One more for me because I simply do not understand your logic.

Here's the question for you. In the heat of the moment if this player was not tackled by someone etc. What were his attentions by bolting onto the field with a bat? What was he going to do with that bat? Obviosuly it was not to hit a baseball. At that moment the players intentions were most likely to cause harm otherwise why rush onto the field with a bat.

IMO, that player is lucky at least if this were the US that criminal charges were not pressed.

Also, it is a flat out joke to only have a one game suspension for this act.

Pete Booth

[CraigD]

Mr. Booth,

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

[/B]

One more for me because I simply do not understand your logic.

You're making this harder than necessary. The two societies we are comparing are different. That's all. I have no doubt that in America, it is likely that the police would have been called, or a civil suit filed later. However, that isn't the normal way of handling things here, and it hasn't always been that way in America either. If I'm not mistaken, you are old enough and experienced enough to know that there was a time in America when every guy brandishing a baseball bat with the intent to harm wasn't prosecuted. If his team mates tackled him and settled him down and nobody was hurt, it was over with. That's what happened here. End of story.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Here's the question for you. In the heat of the moment if this player was not tackled by someone etc. What were his attentions by bolting onto the field with a bat? What was he going to do with that bat? Obviosuly it was not to hit a baseball. At that moment the players intentions were most likely to cause harm otherwise why rush onto the field with a bat.

I gather from those who were there that had he not been tackled he likely would have caused great harm to the opposing team's coach. Thankfully, it didn't get that far and, in the end, no one was hurt.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

IMO, that player is lucky at least if this were the US that criminal charges were not pressed.

Also, it is a flat out joke to only have a one game suspension for this act.

On these two points we are in total agreement.

All that's left now is to get through the final game tomorrow evening without an incident. I have the plate again and will likely start the game with an official warning.

[DG]

Originally Posted by CraigD

However, that isn't the normal way of handling things here, and it hasn't always been that way in America either. If I'm not mistaken, you are old enough and experienced enough to know that there was a time in America when every guy brandishing a baseball bat with the intent to harm wasn't prosecuted. If his team mates tackled him and settled him down and nobody was hurt, it was over with. That's what happened here. End of story.

I don't remember a time when a bat swinging guy was not hauled away. Whether he was prosecuted afterwards is out of my hands.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CraigD

Mr. Booth,

If I'm not mistaken, you are old enough and experienced enough to know that there was a time in America when every guy brandishing a baseball bat with the intent to harm wasn't prosecuted. If his team mates tackled him and settled him down and nobody was hurt, it was over with. That's what happened here. End of story.

Anyone threatening bodily harm with a baseball bat is removed from the game immediately. In most most leagues, he will receive additional penalties. I've never seen it played out as you suggest.

As far as "prosecution" goes, that will depend on the wishes of the victim.

Bottom line, by any standard, you let too much go in your games.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Anyone threatening bodily harm with a baseball bat is removed from the game immediately. In most most leagues, he will receive additional penalties.

That is exactly what happened. Most have said that the additional penalty he received was too light. No argument from me about that.

Originally Posted by GarthB

I've never seen it played out as you suggest.

Well, I guess your experiences have been different than mine.

I suppose none of you have ever seen an argument in a bar or pool hall in which one patron threatened another patron with a pool cue, but when things were stopped short of an actual physical altercation, everybody walked away without the intervention of the police or the courts.

I've seen the same kind of thing at baseball and softball games in the 70's and 80's in Texas and Oklahoma. Apparently, I grew up in a dramatically different environment than some of you.

Originally Posted by GarthB

Bottom line, by any standard, you let too much go in your games.

Thanks for your critique.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by CraigD

Thanks for the replies guys.
Mr. Jenkins, how would you have addressed the situation without giving an official warning? What would you say, and to whom? Thanks for your previous thoughts.

Awareness is good if things do "head south" on their own. However, most baseball things only happen by mere coincidence. Sometimes, having this situation in your mind may exagerate an innocent event that may take place during the game. That would be bad. I would suggest that you try to put it behind you and not even mention it anymore.

If you go looking for anything to escalate before it happens, you may end up putting yourself in a very awkward postion. The individuals have already dealt with the league president and I am sure that the real "players" want to put this bad situation behind them ASAP and enjoy some good baseball, again.