Strike Zone

[LomUmp]

Hey all,

I am probably one of the VERY few that you will hear this from...DON'T CHANGE A THING!!

From my perspective, kids learn to hit, throw and catch. Nowhere do I say pitch. They don't learn to pitch until it is time for them to do so in a game sometime that week.

If you eexxppaanndd the stike zone, you are then teaching a little kid that a bad pitch can/will be called a strike. You are also teaching the little hitters that they had better swing at a bad pitch because that "ball" will probably be called a strike.

Make the pitchers learn how to pitch, and everyone will be better off later on. These are your future HS players, aren't they?

LomUmp

[PeteBooth]

It is not an umpires job to teach F1 how to pitch. That is the coaches job. Also, how is everyone better off if batter after batter simply keeps on walking.

Bottom Line that is why many do not umpire "kiddy ball".

Pete Booth

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

It is not an umpires job to teach F1 how to pitch. That is the coaches job.

Hey all,

I never said it was an umpire's job. I am saying that I see umpires who expand their zone and all game long get the ooh's and aaah's from the bench and the crowd and the players (defensive ones, too!!) It's when it gets to the point where the defensive team is looking at the pitch and saying "WOW!", IMHO something is wrong and it opens the door from a player's early age that that umpires are to blame for the strikeout, out/safe call, loss by their team, or pick your poison.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Also, how is everyone better off if batter after batter simply keeps on walking.

Bottom Line that is why many do not umpire "kiddy ball".

Pete Booth

My point is, where does it end on expanding the zone? An inch or two is one thing; toes to nose, box to box is something different.

LomUmp

[PeteBooth]

As I stated before, IMO there should be a separate and distinct set of rules for the "pee wee' division of baseball.

Example to get my point across.

When my kids played Pee Wee basketball, there was no Full court press allowed until the last 2 minutes of the game unless the game was out of hand by then.

In addition, there had to be a minimum of 3/4 passes before you could shoot the ball so that the kids learned teamwork.

The strike zone as defined in any major rule-book did not have 8/9 yr. olds in mind when it was thought of.

I can tell you as both a Parent former coach and now an umpire no-one likes to see kid after kid walk. It is the most boring time one could have.

The kids are not learning anything. The fielders are not learning how to field properly, etc.

One could argue why have kids at that age pitch to begin with. At that age the league should be more instructional and not keep score etc.

Now to answer your question where does it end on expanding the zone?

It ends as soon as the kids start swinging the bats and not constantly leave the bat on their shoulders. I could care less about the ooh's / aahs from the coaches / parents. As an umpire especially in "kiddy ball" you hear ooh's / aahs no matter what you do. that's why many leagues do not have umpires at this level and have to get parents out of the stands to do the games.

Pete Booth

[johnnyg08]

Call strikes, call strikes, call strikes...if you're consistent, you'll never hear anything from any coach, player, or fan, etc...(not that we care anyway)...but you all catch my drift...good plate umpires establish a zone, they stick with it, and players learn to swing the bat. Every pitch starts out as a strike until it proves to be a ball.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Call strikes, call strikes, call strikes...if you're consistent, you'll never hear anything from any coach, player, or fan, etc...(not that we care anyway)...but you all catch my drift...good plate umpires establish a zone, they stick with it, and players learn to swing the bat. Every pitch starts out as a strike until it proves to be a ball.

Agreed! Think about every game youv'e ever done behind the plate. Those pitches that are just off the plate that are called a ball is when you hear all those ooooos!! and ahhhhhhs! Call those pitches strikes EVERYONE WANTS YOU TO!!!!!!!

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by JR12

Agreed! Think about every game youv'e ever done behind the plate. Those pitches that are just off the plate that are called a ball is when you hear all those ooooos!! and ahhhhhhs! Call those pitches strikes EVERYONE WANTS YOU TO!!!!!!!

Everyone except the hitter.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JR12

Agreed! Think about every game youv'e ever done behind the plate. Those pitches that are just off the plate that are called a ball is when you hear all those ooooos!! and ahhhhhhs! Call those pitches strikes EVERYONE WANTS YOU TO!!!!!!!

Everyone except the hitter and all the fans of the team on offense. You can't please everybody ever.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by LomUmp

Hey all,

I am probably one of the VERY few that you will hear this from...DON'T CHANGE A THING!!

From my perspective, kids learn to hit, throw and catch. Nowhere do I say pitch. They don't learn to pitch until it is time for them to do so in a game sometime that week.

If you eexxppaanndd the stike zone, you are then teaching a little kid that a bad pitch can/will be called a strike. You are also teaching the little hitters that they had better swing at a bad pitch because that "ball" will probably be called a strike.

Make the pitchers learn how to pitch, and everyone will be better off later on. These are your future HS players, aren't they?

LomUmp

I've never heard of such nonsense!!!

The little kids I've seen play would rather stand there and walk if they know 1 out of 6 pitches will actually be called a strike.

If you start out with a large strike zone and slower move it to the correct zone when they reach say 11, 12 and for some leagues even older then they learn how to hit, run and field the ball.

It doesn't make sense to have the smallest strikezone (players that are sometimes 4' 3" tall) for the worst pitchers (youngest players).

Get the kids swinging the bat when their young and everyone is happy, players, coaches, parents and umpires!!

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by tibear

The little kids I've seen play would rather stand there and walk if they know 1 out of 6 pitches will actually be called a strike.

Hey all,

True.

Originally Posted by tibear

It doesn't make sense to have the smallest strikezone (players that are sometimes 4' 3" tall) for the worst pitchers (youngest players).

Does it make sense to call a pitch a strike that obviously comes in out of this 4'3" player's strike zone, in order to keep the game moving?

Originally Posted by tibear

Get the kids swinging the bat when their young and everyone is happy, players, coaches, parents and umpires!!

I sorry, I didn't realize that an umpire is there to make everyone happy.

LomUmp

[tibear]

LomUmp,

What I'm saying is that the only way kids are going to learn to actually play the game is to get the kids hitting the ball. Nobody learns anything if everyone walks the maximum number of runs each inning.

Give the 8-10 year olds BIG strike zones to develop their eye hand coordination, give the fielders opportunities to make plays, etc.

Your right, as umpires we aren't there to make everyone happy, but you must acknowledge that the role of an umpire changes as the players get older. When the players are young I will sometimes slide into a coaches role, if for example some 10 year that has never caught before sets up with his toes basically on the back of home plate. I'll tell the catcher to backup before he gets a bat in the back of the head, howver, I'm not going to tell some 23 year old man the same thing.

[WhiteHat Ref]

When I started umpiring 31 years ago, I had a real tight strike one in Little League. Then someone told me to open up the strike zone on the corners. I did that and the games moved along much more quickly. I still use the same philosophy in varsity ball today. One ball off the inside of the plate and two balls off the outside of the plate. The plate is 17 inches wide so adding an inch or two off the plate doesn't make much of a difference because the bats are 36 inches long. In youth ball you definately want to open up the strike zone so that you don't have a marathon of walks. A LL game that should only last 1 to 1.5 hours will definately last 2 hours if you don't open up the strike zone. Also remember that coaches can't see corners from the dougout.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by WhiteHat Ref

When I started umpiring 31 years ago, I had a real tight strike one in Little League. Then someone told me to open up the strike zone on the corners. I did that and the games moved along much more quickly. I still use the same philosophy in varsity ball today. One ball off the inside of the plate and two balls off the outside of the plate. The plate is 17 inches wide so adding an inch or two off the plate doesn't make much of a difference because the bats are 36 inches long. In youth ball you definately want to open up the strike zone so that you don't have a marathon of walks. A LL game that should only last 1 to 1.5 hours will definately last 2 hours if you don't open up the strike zone. Also remember that coaches can't see corners from the dougout.

High school ball
I don't give anything more than red on black on the inside and try to stay consistent at 1 to 1.5 balls to the outside.
I think it gives way to much advantage to a good pitcher if you give him anything more than the plate on the inside and then be liberal on the outside as well.
Small ball
I still don't give anything off the plate to the inside(unless the kid is standing 2 feet off the plate)
but anything below the hands and just above the ankles and hittable to the outside I call.

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by tibear

LomUmp,

What I'm saying is that the only way kids are going to learn to actually play the game is to get the kids hitting the ball. Nobody learns anything if everyone walks the maximum number of runs each inning.

Give the 8-10 year olds BIG strike zones to develop their eye hand coordination, give the fielders opportunities to make plays, etc.

Your right, as umpires we aren't there to make everyone happy, but you must acknowledge that the role of an umpire changes as the players get older. When the players are young I will sometimes slide into a coaches role, if for example some 10 year that has never caught before sets up with his toes basically on the back of home plate. I'll tell the catcher to backup before he gets a bat in the back of the head, howver, I'm not going to tell some 23 year old man the same thing.

Hey all,

I agree with your last point. If it is a safety issue for the little ones, we will take care of it right then and there. If it is something they are just doing wrong, I'll let it go until it becomes a rules issue then explain it from there.

Just a point of interest, from what I have seen, there are almost as many adults, as there are kids, that still try to play/manage/coach that don't know/understand the rules in which they play.

LomUmp

Edited for spelling like one of the kids we are talking about....

[CoachTex]

This is my second year umpiring Little League. Last year, I know I had too tight of a strike zone for the 9&10yo's. This year, opening day, I opened it way up from top to bottom, from side to side. The other umpires seemed to follow and we had huge strike zones.

Now that we're over half way through the season, I've tighten up a bit. Last night I called a game where even though I was behind the plate, I was basically a base umpire. EVERY kid that came to plate laid off the bad pitches and swung at everything close. I think I had 5 called strikes on the night. Kids were swinging, the ball was in play and we played 5 full inning in under an 1.5 hours.

Both coaches told me what an outstanding job I did. I smiled and said "nope, I didn't do anything. Your players swung at the good pitches, laid off the bad pitches. I was just a spectator".

Last year I got roped into calling a championship game for 8yo's. My strike zone was chin to below the knees and 2 to 3 balls on either side. In between innings I had a coach tell me my strike zone was too small

My advice to you calling 9yo's is, shoulders to anything low that the catcher can catch without the ball hitting the dirt, either side of the plate where the catcher can catch it without lunging, and move the plate with each batter. Try to find the strikes and if the kid has the bat on his shoulder with 2 strikes, anything hittable is a strike.