Strike Zone

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

It is not an umpires job to teach F1 how to pitch. That is the coaches job.

Hey all,

I never said it was an umpire's job. I am saying that I see umpires who expand their zone and all game long get the ooh's and aaah's from the bench and the crowd and the players (defensive ones, too!!) It's when it gets to the point where the defensive team is looking at the pitch and saying "WOW!", IMHO something is wrong and it opens the door from a player's early age that that umpires are to blame for the strikeout, out/safe call, loss by their team, or pick your poison.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Also, how is everyone better off if batter after batter simply keeps on walking.

Bottom Line that is why many do not umpire "kiddy ball".

Pete Booth

My point is, where does it end on expanding the zone? An inch or two is one thing; toes to nose, box to box is something different.

LomUmp

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by tibear

The little kids I've seen play would rather stand there and walk if they know 1 out of 6 pitches will actually be called a strike.

Hey all,

True.

Originally Posted by tibear

It doesn't make sense to have the smallest strikezone (players that are sometimes 4' 3" tall) for the worst pitchers (youngest players).

Does it make sense to call a pitch a strike that obviously comes in out of this 4'3" player's strike zone, in order to keep the game moving?

Originally Posted by tibear

Get the kids swinging the bat when their young and everyone is happy, players, coaches, parents and umpires!!

I sorry, I didn't realize that an umpire is there to make everyone happy.

LomUmp

[tibear]

LomUmp,

What I'm saying is that the only way kids are going to learn to actually play the game is to get the kids hitting the ball. Nobody learns anything if everyone walks the maximum number of runs each inning.

Give the 8-10 year olds BIG strike zones to develop their eye hand coordination, give the fielders opportunities to make plays, etc.

Your right, as umpires we aren't there to make everyone happy, but you must acknowledge that the role of an umpire changes as the players get older. When the players are young I will sometimes slide into a coaches role, if for example some 10 year that has never caught before sets up with his toes basically on the back of home plate. I'll tell the catcher to backup before he gets a bat in the back of the head, howver, I'm not going to tell some 23 year old man the same thing.

[WhiteHat Ref]

When I started umpiring 31 years ago, I had a real tight strike one in Little League. Then someone told me to open up the strike zone on the corners. I did that and the games moved along much more quickly. I still use the same philosophy in varsity ball today. One ball off the inside of the plate and two balls off the outside of the plate. The plate is 17 inches wide so adding an inch or two off the plate doesn't make much of a difference because the bats are 36 inches long. In youth ball you definately want to open up the strike zone so that you don't have a marathon of walks. A LL game that should only last 1 to 1.5 hours will definately last 2 hours if you don't open up the strike zone. Also remember that coaches can't see corners from the dougout.

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by tibear

LomUmp,

What I'm saying is that the only way kids are going to learn to actually play the game is to get the kids hitting the ball. Nobody learns anything if everyone walks the maximum number of runs each inning.

Give the 8-10 year olds BIG strike zones to develop their eye hand coordination, give the fielders opportunities to make plays, etc.

Your right, as umpires we aren't there to make everyone happy, but you must acknowledge that the role of an umpire changes as the players get older. When the players are young I will sometimes slide into a coaches role, if for example some 10 year that has never caught before sets up with his toes basically on the back of home plate. I'll tell the catcher to backup before he gets a bat in the back of the head, howver, I'm not going to tell some 23 year old man the same thing.

Hey all,

I agree with your last point. If it is a safety issue for the little ones, we will take care of it right then and there. If it is something they are just doing wrong, I'll let it go until it becomes a rules issue then explain it from there.

Just a point of interest, from what I have seen, there are almost as many adults, as there are kids, that still try to play/manage/coach that don't know/understand the rules in which they play.

LomUmp

Edited for spelling like one of the kids we are talking about....

[CoachTex]

This is my second year umpiring Little League. Last year, I know I had too tight of a strike zone for the 9&10yo's. This year, opening day, I opened it way up from top to bottom, from side to side. The other umpires seemed to follow and we had huge strike zones.

Now that we're over half way through the season, I've tighten up a bit. Last night I called a game where even though I was behind the plate, I was basically a base umpire. EVERY kid that came to plate laid off the bad pitches and swung at everything close. I think I had 5 called strikes on the night. Kids were swinging, the ball was in play and we played 5 full inning in under an 1.5 hours.

Both coaches told me what an outstanding job I did. I smiled and said "nope, I didn't do anything. Your players swung at the good pitches, laid off the bad pitches. I was just a spectator".

Last year I got roped into calling a championship game for 8yo's. My strike zone was chin to below the knees and 2 to 3 balls on either side. In between innings I had a coach tell me my strike zone was too small

My advice to you calling 9yo's is, shoulders to anything low that the catcher can catch without the ball hitting the dirt, either side of the plate where the catcher can catch it without lunging, and move the plate with each batter. Try to find the strikes and if the kid has the bat on his shoulder with 2 strikes, anything hittable is a strike.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by WhiteHat Ref

When I started umpiring 31 years ago, I had a real tight strike one in Little League. Then someone told me to open up the strike zone on the corners. I did that and the games moved along much more quickly. I still use the same philosophy in varsity ball today. One ball off the inside of the plate and two balls off the outside of the plate. The plate is 17 inches wide so adding an inch or two off the plate doesn't make much of a difference because the bats are 36 inches long. In youth ball you definately want to open up the strike zone so that you don't have a marathon of walks. A LL game that should only last 1 to 1.5 hours will definately last 2 hours if you don't open up the strike zone. Also remember that coaches can't see corners from the dougout.

High school ball
I don't give anything more than red on black on the inside and try to stay consistent at 1 to 1.5 balls to the outside.
I think it gives way to much advantage to a good pitcher if you give him anything more than the plate on the inside and then be liberal on the outside as well.
Small ball
I still don't give anything off the plate to the inside(unless the kid is standing 2 feet off the plate)
but anything below the hands and just above the ankles and hittable to the outside I call.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach

I am a school coach who has started doing some rec umpiring as a prelude to moving up to the HS ranks when I stop coaching.
Tonight the coach was giving me a hard time about my strike zone. This is the same community in which I coach, and he kept saying "These aren't HS kids, they are 9 years old." He thought my zone was tight.
I give them the benefit of the doubt vertically, but nothing horizontally. My feeling is that 9 year olds can still hit a pitch a little low or a little high, but there's no way they can cover a pitch off the plate, especially the smaller kids.

What do you think? How do you adjust your zone for the lower levels?

I think the plate's 17" wide and the bats, even for the little tykes, are 30" long, which kind of argues against your theory.

The bottom line is if you're umpiring a walkathon, nobody's having any fun. With kids in a rec league, adjust to the level.

[Rcichon]

Frankly I don't like tweaking the zone but for 12YO's, I've seen it go from letters to just below knee. In and out just has to be hittable.

[JR12]

Recently our County High School Coaches were polled about how our Umpire Assoc. could improve. The #1 answer was (you guessed it) CALL MORE STRIKES!!!

[mick]

Originally Posted by JR12

Recently our County High School Coaches were polled about how our Umpire Assoc. could improve. The #1 answer was (you guessed it) CALL MORE STRIKES!!!

I do not find this surprising.
Like us, the game keeps moving, everyone gets home sooner, ... and more strikes gives the illusion that their pitchers can actually pitch, because the coaches have been doing their job.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mick

I do not find this surprising.
and more strikes gives the illusion that their pitchers can actually pitch, because the coaches have been doing their job.

Now that's funny! But true!

Having a 9 year old, last nights game was a better game because the umpire called many more strikes.

However, he was calling more high and low where if he would have expanded the zone the same amount on the in and out if would have been much better.

Parents complained all game long about high and low. Everyone wanted to know why the one a little inside was not a strike - or the one a little outside.

As has been mentioned, no one can tell if its inside or outside sitting in the stands. But everyone can see it was at 'lil Johnnys eyes and the umpire called it a strike.

Thanks
David

[greymule]

Just to clarify, I don't believe in calling truly bad pitches strikes, whatever the situation. If the pitcher throws 50 in a row that are over the batter's head or in the dirt, that's 50 balls.

This isn't just a theoretical point. A few years ago, I began a SP (men's) softball game with 48 straight balls. (Boy, was that game fun to work.)

Once on a business trip (to a Chicago suburb) I found a LL game near my hotel, so I sat in the stands for a while. The first 30 pitches would have been balls if the plate had been 6 feet wide and the batter 10 feet tall. And the 30 took about 20 minutes, as after each pitch the catcher waddled over to retrieve the ball from wherever it had ended up. When they decided to station a coach at the backstop to do the retrieving and "speed" the game along, I left.

[Referee]

Agreed! Open the strike zone liberally where applicable... Aside from little kids, try semi-pro... I did the "Latin Leagues" in Miami. Being from Boston, I believed that the talent levels would be greater??? Wrong! These guys continually try to pick inside and out and you'd think the plate had an infectious disease... Try a four hour nine inning game because of full counts and numerous walks in 90 degree 85% humidity conditions...

[TheSlav]

In youth ball (12U), as long as you don't expand up or down too much you should be OK. MOST coaches want the kids to swing the bat, the others at that level know that walks turn into PB doubles, triples and more importantly RUNS scored and are subtly teaching a percentage of their kids to NOT swing the bat and draw the all-important walk.

One on the inside corner, two on the outside or visually anything between the two batters box lines, provided they were drawn by someone who can put them close to where they belong.

Nothing above the shoulders or in the dirt (You'll hear the whiny "how can I teach him not to swing at that if you guys are going to call it").

The kids finally enjoy playing a 4-3 or 5-3 game and a full six innings once in a while instead of the beer-league softball scores ended by darkness with four ugly innings in the books after 2 1/2 hours.

RANT OVER