Legal or Illegal Pitch?

[scottbono]

R3 is attempting to steal home;the pitcher steps off the rubber to throw home. The catcher reaches towards the ball and the batter swings at which he hits the catcher. Dead ball: Illegal Pitch, Award BR first and return R3?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by scottbono

R3 is attempting to steal home;the pitcher steps off the rubber to throw home. The catcher reaches towards the ball and the batter swings at which he hits the catcher. Dead ball: Illegal Pitch, Award BR first and return R3?

Where do I start....

Not illegal pitch. (Not a pitch at all - a throw from a fielder to another fielder).

What do you call it when an offensive player hinders the defensive player's ability to catch a thrown ball?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by scottbono

R3 is attempting to steal home;the pitcher steps off the rubber to throw home. The catcher reaches towards the ball and the batter swings at which he hits the catcher. Dead ball: Illegal Pitch, Award BR first and return R3?

Caution.

If he legally stepped off it MAY br OK.

But if his motion makes it look like a pitch he may have violated

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --
(g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate;

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Caution.

If he legally stepped off it MAY br OK.

But if his motion makes it look like a pitch he may have violated

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --
(g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate;

Don't read more into the post than what is written. As soon as F1 removes his foot from the rubber, he becomes a fielder and the throw home becomes a legitimate play at HP on R3. The only ruling in this situation is interference on the part of the batter.

Depending on the number of outs either batter or runner are out.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Don't read more into the post than what is written. As soon as F1 removes his foot from the rubber, he becomes a fielder and the throw home becomes a legitimate play at HP on R3. The only ruling in this situation is interference on the part of the batter.

Depending on the number of outs either batter or runner are out.

So we just ignore 8.05(g)?

Where does it say we should do that?

It actually got called a balk against Ramiro Mendoza (Red Sox) in a game against the Yankees. He stepped back then went through his normal from-set motion.

[LMan]

Then he deserved the balk. Who (among sentient beings) disengages legally, then does a wind-up before he tries to cut down a runner at the plate?

[scarolinablue]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Don't read more into the post than what is written. As soon as F1 removes his foot from the rubber, he becomes a fielder and the throw home becomes a legitimate play at HP on R3. The only ruling in this situation is interference on the part of the batter.

Depending on the number of outs either batter or runner are out.

I disagree. If the motion by the pitcher resembles his normal pitching motion, even if he's stepped off the rubber, he could be called for a balk. If he was in the set position, stepped off, and then lifted his non-pivot foot similar to his normal delivery, this could confuse the batter, who would then be justified in swinging at the "pitch".

Otherwise, as you've said above...interference on the batter. Guess you'd HTBT in the OP sitch.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I disagree. If the motion by the pitcher resembles his normal pitching motion, even if he's stepped off the rubber, he could be called for a balk. If he was in the set position, stepped off, and then lifted his non-pivot foot similar to his normal delivery, this could confuse the batter, who would then be justified in swinging at the "pitch".

Otherwise, as you've said above...interference on the batter. Guess you'd HTBT in the OP sitch.

I'll have to support Bigguy here. Reading the OP as written, and without making something out of it that it isn't, we see that the pitcher stepped off and threw the ball home. He didn't pitch it. There is a difference between a throw and a pitch and unless the original poster changes his story, this not a balk.

Yes, Rich, unless the poster tell us that the pitcher threw in a manner that resembled his pitching delivery, we ignore 8.05 (g). It doesn't come into play.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I'll have to support Bigguy here. Reading the OP as written, and without making something out of it that it isn't, we see that the pitcher stepped off and threw the ball home. He didn't pitch it. There is a difference between a throw and a pitch and unless the original poster changes his story, this not a balk.

Yes, Rich, unless the poster tell us that the pitcher threw in a manner that resembled his pitching delivery, we ignore 8.05 (g). It doesn't come into play.

Darn guys, all I said was that there might be a condition when it was a balk. Shouldn't people be aware of that? Or would you rather explain it to some angry coach that read here that it wasn't?


BTW Garth, your simple "Why?" post seems to have blocked follow up posts, at least on my computer.

[UmpJM]

Rich,

You are not the only one. Actually people can still make additional posts, and they're there - you (I) just can't see them.

I've sent Garth a PM with a suggested resolution. I believe he was working a game this afternoon, so it may be awhile before he's able to fix it.

JM

[FTVMartin]

If he stepped off it is not a pitch. I would not call the balk because he is now infielder in the act of making a play on the runner. I would assum this means he hurried to make the throw home and did not wind up. If that is the case then you may get away with calling the balk but be ready for both coaches to come out.

As long as the pitcher clearly stepped off, then you have a batter interfering with a thrown ball. BR is out and R3 goes back to third.

[scottbono]

A.The pitcher threw the ball home w/out a normal delivery towards the plate.
B. There was one out w/runner on second.
The UIC said that he threw home and it was consider a illegal pitch that the batter has the right to hit like a balk pitch. Award BR first and return R3.
I called int on the batter. F1 is now consider a fielder making a play @home.

[newump]

with none or one out, isn't R3 out? w/ 2outs the batter is out for the 3rd out. correct?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by newump

with none or one out, isn't R3 out? w/ 2outs the batter is out for the 3rd out. correct?

you got it newb!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SAump

Something fishy about a pitcher stepping off and then throwing home.

*The pitcher's status may legally change to fielder, but does the batter's status change to observer?

*I would like to see a rule or case play that states the batter must recognize the pitcher as a fielder and that any attempt he makes to hit the ball shall be ruled interference.

*By design, any throw home from the mound simulates a pitch.

*If the pitcher threw home while disengaged from the rubber, illegal pitch, BALK.

*JMHO until I see something realistic, like perhaps, ONE example where this situation occurred in a real ballgame.

Are you really serious about this? Is this really the first time you've heard of any of this?