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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 28, 2007, 02:42am
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Lightbulb Changing a call...

So how do you change a call and make it look as professional as possible? For example; the post regarding the 1B pulling his leg off the bag due to a bad throw. FU calls him out, while PU sees otherwise.. FU asks for help and the call is eventually overturned. Now what? The guy is in the dugout.. You gotta go grab him and get him back on first.. What do you say to the manager who is now obviously ticked because now the guy is safe instead of out...
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Old Wed Feb 28, 2007, 02:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindofficial
So how do you change a call and make it look as professional as possible? For example; the post regarding the 1B pulling his leg off the bag due to a bad throw. FU calls him out, while PU sees otherwise.. FU asks for help and the call is eventually overturned. Now what? The guy is in the dugout.. You gotta go grab him and get him back on first.. What do you say to the manager who is now obviously ticked because now the guy is safe instead of out...
You explain that the right call was made when it was changed. If he continues to argue, warn him. If he doesn't heed the warning, run him.
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Old Wed Feb 28, 2007, 02:48am
rei
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You tell him that you would seek getting the call right if it was his runner too!

It was coaches who asked for this change! As I stated in another thread, in my experiences with this so far, all coaches have been accepting of the calls made, whether for or against them. Yeah, sometimes it doesn't work out in their favor, but they know that one day, a call will get reversed in their favor!

Usually, the guy is not in the dugout yet because the coach is telling him, "Stay right here!".
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Old Wed Feb 28, 2007, 08:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindofficial
So how do you change a call and make it look as professional as possible? For example; the post regarding the 1B pulling his leg off the bag due to a bad throw. FU calls him out, while PU sees otherwise.. FU asks for help and the call is eventually overturned. Now what? The guy is in the dugout.. You gotta go grab him and get him back on first.. What do you say to the manager who is now obviously ticked because now the guy is safe instead of out...
How do you make it look professional?

1. Get in position! That is the biggest reason these calls are missed.

2. Pay attention to the play!

3. If in doubt, go for help before you make the call! Doing this results in one play - one call! The coaches will respect this more than making two calls for one play.

4. See the play, see it again in your head, make the call. No one is rushing you and it is nothing until you call it!
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 01:45pm
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When appealing to the plate umpire as to whether the first baseman pulled his foot off the bag, should an umpire just point to him for the appeal, or should he walk up to him, discuss whatever needs to be discussed privately, and then make a decision and make the call?
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 01:45pm
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When appealing to the plate umpire as to whether the first baseman pulled his foot off the bag, should an umpire just point to him for the appeal, or should he walk up to him, discuss whatever needs to be discussed privately, and then make a decision and make the call?
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
When appealing to the plate umpire as to whether the first baseman pulled his foot off the bag, should an umpire just point to him for the appeal, or should he walk up to him, discuss whatever needs to be discussed privately, and then make a decision and make the call?

Nice (if transparent) try.
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 01:57pm
rei
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I would appeal right away! He is not making the out call for you per se, he is just determining if the first baseman pulled his foot before he caught the ball (I know, that is more of less making the call for you! )

We had a VERY heated discussion last year in our association as to whether you should make your call first, then go for help if that is appealed, or go for help right away.

We came up with if you are very sure of your call, make it, but go for help if the offense appeals for you to get help with the pulled foot. If you are not sure, then go for help right away.

If you let the coach get all the way out to you before you go to your partner for help, you got some problems! Not that you didn't do the right thing. It is that it appears that you allowed the coach to talk you into the appeal. Pretty good chance the other coach is going to want to talk you out of it if you know what I mean! If the coach starts running at you wanting you to go for help, hold up your hand towards him and tell him to stay put and start heading towards your partner. Talk to your partner alone, which nobody close enough to hear what you are talking about. Just because you ask him for help at this point, you DO NOT have to change your call! But, at least by going to him, the coach now thinks two of you are either idiots, or seen the same thing.

It is just best to go for help if you are not sure! If you are sure, and they explode on you, talk to your partner, but uphold your call. Remember, your partner may have got it wrong too!
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 02:09pm
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
When appealing to the plate umpire as to whether the first baseman pulled his foot off the bag, should an umpire just point to him for the appeal, or should he walk up to him, discuss whatever needs to be discussed privately, and then make a decision and make the call?
The aformentioned is simple and looks professional if done the right way.

As Ozzy says you as BU should get into proper position but sometimes in a 2 person system it is difficult especially if you have R2 and are in "C".

Let's assume Ozzy has the dish and I'm the BU and I am unsure if F3 has the bag or not. I am not going to wait until after the play. I simply say "Ozzy did he have the bag" or something similiar. Ozzy in turn will give me what he saw. However, the call is STILL MINE. All I am doing is asking for specific info and then I will make the call.

IMO, it looks professional and the game keeps moving. If you wait, then the Coach will request TIME, go talk to the BU who might or might not ask the PU for help etc. that all takes needless time away from the game.

Bottom Line: Do not get in the habit of using the PU as a "'cruch" all the time on the swipe tag pulled foot, however, if you do need help do it before the play is over. It looks professional.

Pete Booth
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 02:21pm
rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
The aformentioned is simple and looks professional if done the right way.

As Ozzy says you as BU should get into proper position but sometimes in a 2 person system it is difficult especially if you have R2 and are in "C".

Let's assume Ozzy has the dish and I'm the BU and I am unsure if F3 has the bag or not. I am not going to wait until after the play. I simply say "Ozzy did he have the bag" or something similiar. Ozzy in turn will give me what he saw. However, the call is STILL MINE. All I am doing is asking for specific info and then I will make the call.

IMO, it looks professional and the game keeps moving. If you wait, then the Coach will request TIME, go talk to the BU who might or might not ask the PU for help etc. that all takes needless time away from the game.

Bottom Line: Do not get in the habit of using the PU as a "'cruch" all the time on the swipe tag pulled foot, however, if you do need help do it before the play is over. It looks professional.

Pete Booth
Good post!
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 04:25pm
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Wink easy fix

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
The aformentioned is simple and looks professional if done the right way.

As Ozzy says you as BU should get into proper position but sometimes in a 2 person system it is difficult especially if you have R2 and are in "C".

Let's assume Ozzy has the dish and I'm the BU and I am unsure if F3 has the bag or not. I am not going to wait until after the play. I simply say "Ozzy did he have the bag" or something similiar. Ozzy in turn will give me what he saw. However, the call is STILL MINE. All I am doing is asking for specific info and then I will make the call.

IMO, it looks professional and the game keeps moving. If you wait, then the Coach will request TIME, go talk to the BU who might or might not ask the PU for help etc. that all takes needless time away from the game.

Bottom Line: Do not get in the habit of using the PU as a "'cruch" all the time on the swipe tag pulled foot, however, if you do need help do it before the play is over. It looks professional.

Pete Booth
Good information Pete, but hey if I stay in B then I'm always in position ...

Its BU's call and he should always make the call. (that's to make it look professional as the question asked)

Making the call and then asking gives the impression that you had doubts about the call and then that the PU is "changing the call."

Thanks
David
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 05:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
Good information Pete, but hey if I stay in B then I'm always in position ...

Its BU's call and he should always make the call. (that's to make it look professional as the question asked)

Making the call and then asking gives the impression that you had doubts about the call and then that the PU is "changing the call."

Thanks
David
Runner on 2B, BU in "B".....heck, that could start this post in an entirely new direction
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 10:11pm
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I always go up the line with no one on base in case my partner wants help on a pulled foot. I don't expect to need to provide help, I expect him to get his calls, but it looks good and is proper mechanic for PU with nothing else to do. Plus, I have an overthrow into DBT if it happens.

If he asks was he on the bag before making a call, I give him a yes or no. I expect that he has an OUT call if F3 was on the bag, otherwise why would he ask, he would just make a safe call if the runner beat the throw. If he calls him out and then he asks, we have a short discussion in close proximity and I recommend we live with the call and advise him that he should ask before making an out call. If you make an out call you are sure about it.

If I make an out call as BU, there will be no request to my partner, I am sure, and head coaches can complain all they want. I think I ask for help about once every 5 years and then it's a swipe tag question, not a foot on the bag question.
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 10:44pm
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Mr. Ozzy, "If in doubt get help before you make the call"? What is happening with respect to the other runners who might be in motion and the fielders who are decidng whether to make a play somewhere else.? Surely you meant this only when there is no one on base.
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 12:20am
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Thanks for the help on this one guys.

I had always thought that one had to make a call, then wait till they ask for an appeal on the pulling the foot off the bag call, however I was wrong.
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