Flag placement

[SAump]

Originally Posted by bbsbvb83

... The patch should NEVER be worn on the back of the shirt. (I was very disappointed with the MLB's patch placement following 9-11.) When in doubt as to proper flag display, contact a representative of your local VFW or American Legion.

Many are disappointed with the MILBumps' ratty behavior on this website. Add this error to the top of a very long list of well documented misconduct last spring.

[BBUMP99]

I think that we (athletes and officials) get away with wearing flags because we can say that we are wearing replicas of the flag, and not actual flags, since they are usually on a one-sided patch...that is my guess...

[greymule]

The ECAC prescribes "no flags" for its umpires. I don't know whether this is purely for cosmetic considerations or out of fear of offending somebody who hates America. (Before I knew this, I wore a flag on my left sleeve and nobody ever said anything. Interestingly, I find that many ECAC officials are unaware of the proscription.)

A flag on the cap is part of the ASA and NSA uniform. Both flags are on the left side of the cap, with the blue field on the left. The NSA flag is wavy, though, while the ASA flag is straight.

In last year's NJ Babe Ruth tournament, they decorated the fences with bunting, but they had the red on the outside and the blue inside, the opposite of customary display.

I live near the college town of Princeton, NJ, and deliberately display flag decals on my car just to annoy the many lefties in the area (and I don't mean southpaws).

In at least one city, men whose culture requires the wearing of a turban are claiming that the rule that police officers must wear a cap discriminates against them. If these guys become umpires, All-Star is going to have to figure out how to make a combination turban-helmet.

[kylejt]

Perhaps Honigs will make a patent leather turbin.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by greymule

I live near the college town of Princeton, NJ, and deliberately display flag decals on my car just to annoy the many lefties in the area (and I don't mean southpaws).

This offends me, because it disrespects people like my nephew, whose Navy pilot's callsign was "Lefty" and who is currently in Baghdad, Iraq, on loan to the U.S. Army because of a shortage of officers, fighting to defend your right to call him unpatriotic because your political views disagree with his.

[greymule]

This offends me, because it disrespects people like my nephew, whose Navy pilot's callsign was "Lefty" and who is currently in Baghdad, Iraq, on loan to the U.S. Army because of a shortage of officers, fighting to defend your right to call him unpatriotic because your political views disagree with his.

At first I thought you were being facetious in your post, Dave, but since I'm not absolutely sure, I will state my views in plain English, with no sarcasm, no irony, no attempts at humor.

I am 100% behind our troops, and I support what they are doing. The "lefties" I like to annoy are the many local left-wing intellectuals who hate the American flag and complain when the town flies flags on Independence Day, who loudly and proudly proclaim that the American flag stands for war and imperialism and stealing oil and oppressing people. The "lefties" I'm talking about are the people who, when the twin towers went down, filled the local papers with letters about how we had it coming because we had somehow offended "them." To me, the people who fight for America are patriotic. The people who want to undermine their effort are traitors. Any Navy pilot in Iraq is OK by me, whatever his political views.

I would never tar anyone with the label "unpatriotic" simply for being against the war or for disagreeing with me. I would label as unpatriotic the people who live here and take advantage of our liberty and then blame America for all the ills of the world.

And around here, there are plenty of such people. Some of them even make a point of remaining seated when the national anthem is played.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by greymule

The "lefties" I like to annoy are the many local left-wing intellectuals who hate the American flag and complain when the town flies flags on Independence Day, who loudly and proudly proclaim that the American flag stands for war and imperialism and stealing oil and oppressing people.

Could you provide some published quotes or links to news stories that identify and quote these people as saying these things? Every time I try to research such references I discover that the boogeymen are mostly figments of overly partisan imaginations, the kind of imaginations that cause their owners to say things like "you're either with us (the current administration and its policies) or you're with the terrorists."

The "lefties" I'm talking about are the people who, when the twin towers went down, filled the local papers with letters about how we had it coming because we had somehow offended "them." To me, the people who fight for America are patriotic. The people who want to undermine their effort are traitors. Any Navy pilot in Iraq is OK by me, whatever his political views.

Again, I'd sure like to see some substantiation for claims that these "lefties" "filled the local papers with letters" making the claims you state. Personally, my vivid recollection of the most newsworthy such whining from the "blame America first" crowd, if you will, came not from the left but from those bastions of American conservatism - Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell:

JERRY FALWELL: ...what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact, if in fact God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.

JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, yes.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government.
-- 700 Club, 9/13/01

The truth is both the left and the right have a few nutjobs on the extremes, and it is unfair and disrespectful to ascribe their extreme views to anyone other than those SPECIFIC few. "Lefties" and "liberals" are labels that have been used by the partisan rightwingers who have, until very recently, controlled the entire federal government, as well as much of the broadcast and publishing media, for the purposes of polarizing and demonizing political opponents and equating them with terrorists and nations adversarial to the United States.

That mindset and attitude has really worked out well for us, hasn't it?

I would never tar anyone with the label "unpatriotic" simply for being against the war or for disagreeing with me. I would label as unpatriotic the people who live here and take advantage of our liberty and then blame America for all the ills of the world.

Then why don't you dust off that old conservative battlecry "America - Love it or Leave it!" I'm old enough to remember where that cliche originated - with the rightwingers trying to quash criticism of Richard Nixon's administration of the Vietnam war.

If you truly do not wish to incite offense and adversity from people like me and my LEFTY nephew in your public postings, perhaps you might reconsider painting with such a broad stroke. Just a suggestion; you are, of course, free to speak your mind and ignore my opinion, as you see fit.

[bbsbvb83]

Originally Posted by AlabamaBlue

If it's worn on the front of your shirt the union should always be to the left as you're looking at the flag. The only time the union goes to the right is on sleeves and vehicles/aircraft.

Correct. That is what I said. The union (stars) should be closest to the sternum (center of the chest).

[greymule]

Could you provide some published quotes or links to news stories that identify and quote these people as saying these things? Every time I try to research such references I discover that the boogeymen are mostly figments of overly partisan imaginations, the kind of imaginations that cause their owners to say things like "you're either with us (the current administration and its policies) or you're with the terrorists."

Start your search with the names Ward Churchill (see "Little Eichmanns") and Ted Turner (see "I wasn't sure which side I was on"). There are college professors now teaching that the U.S. government itself staged the entire 911 incident. The instances are not hard to find.

I'd sure like to see some substantiation for claims that these "lefties" "filled the local papers with letters" making the claims you state.

I don't save the local papers, but I'll start cutting out letters for you. Maybe they'll publish another one from the woman who wrote in last year about how she couldn't sleep at night because at her daughter's graduation, they asked everyone to stand up as the seniors entered the auditorium. So she stood up with everyone else but was then horrified to hear the national anthem begin. She didn't feel comfortable sitting down at that point, but forced herself to stand through the Star-Spangled Banner and has felt guilty ever since. Somehow I doubt that your nephew and that woman have much in common. I doubt that your Navy pilot nephew would be offended by the flag on my vehicle.

rightwingers who have, until very recently, controlled the entire federal government, as well as much of the broadcast and publishing media

The entire federal government? How many of the 100 senators would you have labeled as right wingers? And the media? Right-wing outlets like the NY Times, the LA Times, CBS News, ABC News, NBC News, CNN, Time, Newsweek? Over ninety percent of reporters are self-described liberals. Better inform them they're working for the enemy.

Then why don't you dust off that old conservative battlecry "America - Love it or Leave it!" I'm old enough to remember where that cliche originated - with the rightwingers trying to quash criticism of Richard Nixon's administration of the Vietnam war.

You're not going to get away with that one. There were patriotic Americans who opposed the war in Vietnam, and there are patriotic Americans who oppose the war in Iraq. And most liberals I know are dedicated patriots as well. But to the people who proclaim that America is the villain on the world stage—the people who complain to the town when it puts up flags on July 4—I would respond, "Then what are you doing here?" And I will continue to fly the American flag and hope they're offended.

I must be older than you, because I remember "America—Love It or Leave It" bumper stickers several years before Nixon was president.

I do agree that there are nutjobs on left and right. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. took a page from the Falwell/Robertson book when he declared that Hurricane Katrina hit part of Mississippi because Trent Lott had praised Strom Thurmond.

An afterthought: Dave was offended because he thought that, by using the term lefties, I was lumping his nephew in with some extremists. Judging by the politics of the military guys I know, an ideology that would cause someone in the military to adopt or be tagged with "Lefty" as a humorous sobriquet would probably actually fall somewhere in the middle of the American political spectrum. Such an ideology would have nothing whatsoever to do with the people I'm talking about—the small minority of America-haters who tend to congregate in university settings.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I'm with greymule 100%. If these people who complain about America so much don't like it, why do they continue to choose to live here?

Alec Baldwin said he was going to move out of the U.S. if George Bush became the president, but I see he is still here, trying desperately to be funny on show after show. He is the only actor on 30 Rock that isn't funny, unfortunately.