Roger's finger 'stuff'

[lagunaump]

This was in the first inning and he was told to wash it off whatever it was. Then he continued to shut out the Cardinals. It seems to me that it had no bearing what so ever in the outcome of the game.

[sj]

....had no bearing

Except to state the what if case of... what if he should have been ejected.

Here's one for debate. If the umps had knowlege that there was something on his hand. They never looked to see what it was. Why not? Did they not want to find out because to do so may have put them into the position of having to kick him out? Did they handle it according to protocol? I certainly don't know the answer to any questions but just want to hear what everybody says.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by s

Here's one for debate. If the umps had knowlege that there was something on his hand. They never looked to see what it was. Why not? Did they not want to find out because to do so may have put them into the position of having to kick him out? Did they handle it according to protocol? I certainly don't know the answer to any questions but just want to hear what everybody says.

This is just speculation but here's what I think happened. The Cardinals noticed something on Roger's pitching hand so LaRussa brought it up to the attention of HP umpire Alfonso Marquez. Fonzie probably asked if he wanted him to confront Rogers to see exactly what it was. LaRussa, not wanting to "disrespect" Leyland, probably just told Marquez that wasn't necessary but whatever it was, to make sure it's gone by the next time he comes out to pitch. Thus, Marquez told Rogers as he was coming off the field "hey Kenny, I don't know what that brown crap is on your hand, but do me a favor and get rid of that stain by the next time you come out here"

You have to remember, umpires don't go looking for boogers unless they have to. They are not going to accuse a player of cheating unless a member of the opposing team brings it up. If LaRussa wanted to make a big deal about it - he could have forced the umpires to go inspect the hand. However, if you going to call someone out like that, you better be sure that he is guilty of something or else it could blow up in your face. LaRussa, probably not wanting to take that chance, just asked Marquez to have Rogers clean his hands. Rogers did that and still shut them out over the next 7 innings - that's why LaRussa said it was no big deal.

However, if LaRussa would have asked the umpires to check out the hand for a foreign substance, Crew Chief Randy Marsh would have been put in a no win situation and probably would have been forced to eject Rogers if indeed, there was pinetar on his hand. That would have changed the entire game but LaRussa, not the umpires, chose not to do that.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

This is just speculation but here's what I think happened. The Cardinals noticed something on Roger's pitching hand so LaRussa brought it up to the attention of HP umpire Alfonso Marquez. Fonzie probably asked if he wanted him to confront Rogers to see exactly what it was. LaRussa, not wanting to "disrespect" Leyland, probably just told Marquez that wasn't necessary but whatever it was, to make sure it's gone by the next time he comes out to pitch. Thus, Marquez told Rogers as he was coming off the field "hey Kenny, I don't know what that brown crap is on your hand, but do me a favor and get rid of that stain by the next time you come out here"

You have to remember, umpires don't go looking for boogers unless they have to. They are not going to accuse a player of cheating unless a member of the opposing team brings it up. If LaRussa wanted to make a big deal about it - he could have forced the umpires to go inspect the hand. However, if you going to call someone out like that, you better be sure that he is guilty of something or else it could blow up in your face. LaRussa, probably not wanting to take that chance, just asked Marquez to have Rogers clean his hands. Rogers did that and still shut them out over the next 7 innings - that's why LaRussa said it was no big deal.

However, if LaRussa would have asked the umpires to check out the hand for a foreign substance, Crew Chief Randy Marsh would have been put in a no win situation and probably would have been forced to eject Rogers if indeed, there was pinetar on his hand. That would have changed the entire game but LaRussa, not the umpires, chose not to do that.

My speculation was right along those same lines. It logically explains pretty much everything we saw.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

This is just speculation but here's what I think happened. The Cardinals noticed something on Roger's pitching hand so LaRussa brought it up to the attention of HP umpire Alfonso Marquez. Fonzie probably asked if he wanted him to confront Rogers to see exactly what it was. LaRussa, not wanting to "disrespect" Leyland, probably just told Marquez that wasn't necessary but whatever it was, to make sure it's gone by the next time he comes out to pitch. Thus, Marquez told Rogers as he was coming off the field "hey Kenny, I don't know what that brown crap is on your hand, but do me a favor and get rid of that stain by the next time you come out here"

You have to remember, umpires don't go looking for boogers unless they have to. They are not going to accuse a player of cheating unless a member of the opposing team brings it up. If LaRussa wanted to make a big deal about it - he could have forced the umpires to go inspect the hand. However, if you going to call someone out like that, you better be sure that he is guilty of something or else it could blow up in your face. LaRussa, probably not wanting to take that chance, just asked Marquez to have Rogers clean his hands. Rogers did that and still shut them out over the next 7 innings - that's why LaRussa said it was no big deal.

However, if LaRussa would have asked the umpires to check out the hand for a foreign substance, Crew Chief Randy Marsh would have been put in a no win situation and probably would have been forced to eject Rogers if indeed, there was pinetar on his hand. That would have changed the entire game but LaRussa, not the umpires, chose not to do that.

Sal, I agree with your assessment and IMO the reason LaRussa didn't have the umpires inspect the ball is because he and Tiger Manager Jim Leland are the best of friends.

If the manager was say good ole Bobby V of the Mets, it's my gut LaRussa would have had the umpires inspect the ball and EJ the pitcher.

My question is this?

Did Joe Torre notice anything? It's hard to believe that Rogers did this for the FIRST time and no-one other than LaRussa found out about it.

Pete Booth

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Did Joe Torre notice anything? It's hard to believe that Rogers did this for the FIRST time and no-one other than LaRussa found out about it.

Well, they've already showed pictures from the ALDS with it in the same spot. My guess is that the Cardinals were reviewing game film and saw it. JMO, though. You can bet if this game goes 6, the cameras and everything will be on Roger's whole body looking for something. Guess it goes to show that pay back is a bi*ch!

[SAump]

Who collects the "vaseballs" and where are they now?

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by lagunaump

This was in the first inning and he was told to wash it off whatever it was. Then he continued to shut out the Cardinals. It seems to me that it had no bearing what so ever in the outcome of the game.

Everyone is just taking for a fact that it is pine tar. My dad, a surgeon who is a specialist in wound care took one look at the hand and immediatly named (this thing I dont remeber the name of it) but he says they use it to help hold wounds togeather, it has something to do with gripping. He was almost positive it was this thing and told me to feel his hand. I touched his hand an it was sticky, he said my point exactly, he had just finished working his one sunday a month at a wound center and had used the stuff. I asked if he washed his hands and he said many times, but the stuff just sticks and is really hard to get off. I might add you could not see anything on his hand. If Rodgers was using this stuff, this could explain why he was still so lights out. Just a thought take it for what it is worth.