Roger's finger 'stuff'

[LMan]

I missed the start of the game last night. What was the boo-har-har about a substance on Roger's hand?

[Toadman15241]

To me, it looked like he had pine tar on his hand. LaRussa went out and talked to Marquez about it. Marquez asked Rogers to wash his hands after the first inning, but he never inspected Rogers' hand to see if the substance was dirt or pine tar. Rogers claims that the substance was dirt and rosin.

[tjones1]

There it is. Looks like he got his hand caught in the cookie jar! Seems fishy to me. MLB probably won't do anything since he wasn't ejected, but bottom line is he should have been ejected. Or at least Marquez should have inspected Rogers' hand. Marquez also went over to the crowd and spoke with umpire supervisor Steve Palermo. I wonder what was said between the two. My momma didn't raise no dummy, I've never seen any dirt look like that before.

What's interesting is they've showed pictures of this "dirt" on his hand in the exact same spot when he pitched in the ALDS and ALCS.

[David B]

Originally Posted by LMan

I missed the start of the game last night. What was the boo-har-har about a substance on Roger's hand?

We probably will never know, but the fact that the umpire (who is a professional) did nothing probably means in reality that its insignificant.

The media just wants to have something to talk about.

I did hear an interview with Todd Jones last week though and he said on radio that in cold weather all of the pitchers will put pine tar on their hands and that its allowed by MLB.

He probably would not say that today since its been blown up, but in his interview he said it was used by nearly all of the pitchers and that the umpires allowed it.

When asked why he said something about that without it they wouldn't be able to throw strikes and MLB didn't want everyone getting hit.

The things that go on in MLB that we just are never aware of ...

Thanks
David

[ozzy6900]

The substance could have been anything. Just because it is brown, does it have to be pine tar? For all we know, Rodger could have just come from the toilet!

[sj]

If it's allowed then why did they want him to wash it off?

[Jurassic Referee]

When did they change the rule on using pine tar?

In the 1988 NLCS, Jay Howell, the Dodgers' closer got caught with pine tar on his glove. He got tossed and then handed a three-game suspension. He argued that he didn't know it was illegal, and MLB told him "Too bad" and that he shoulda known the rules.

[blueump]

If it were pine tar (for argument's sake) and it was on his hand, what rule does this violate? It's not on his glove. It wasn't defacing the ball. Is there a real rules violation? If so, which one?

Is simply having pine tar on the hand illegal?

[UmpJM]

blueump,

How about:

8.02

The pitcher shall not--

...(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

JM

[kylejt]

That's not dirt, Turface, Diamond Pro or pooh. It's pinetar.

Apply a little of that to one edge of a ball, and watch your slider dance. That's a good place to put it too, right on the heal of your thumb. Just roll the ball back in your hand, and viola'. That is until those darn HD cameras showed up.

[cloverdale]

it dismays me that rogers pitching perfprmances in the post season has come down to his "posssible cheating". He cleaned the hand and went out a pitched another 7 innings which left those facing him clueless as to what to do...lets just wait and see... if we will get to see him another day in this series with clean hands, who knows he might just pitch another gem.

[LMan]

From the Detriot News:

ST. LOUIS -- Clean it up -- or else.

That was the message St. Louis manager Tony La Russa sent after FOX television cameras revealed some type of substance on the pitching hand of Detroit starter Kenny Rogers during the first inning of Game 2 of the World Series on Sunday.

La Russa could have gone further and not just issue his version of a warning. He could have asked the umpires to check Rogers with hopes that if the veteran left-hander indeed was doing something illegal, there could be a suspension for the rest of the series.

"I decided that I was not going to be part of the (garbage) where I was going to ask the umpire to go to the mound and undress the pitcher," La Russa said Monday during a workout day before Game 3 tonight at Busch Stadium. "I alerted (plate umpire Alfonso Marquez).

"I said, 'I hope it gets fixed. If it doesn't get fixed, then I'll take the next step.'

"I'm sure there are fans of ours and maybe teammates or whoever, people in the organization, that said, 'You should have gone to the mound.' (The umpires) have to get a request (from the manager). They don't act on their own.

"I said, 'I don't like this stuff, let's get it fixed. If it gets fixed, let's play the game.' It got fixed, in my opinion, and we never hit the guy."

[mbyron]

MLB managers are always controversial figures, and La Russa has had his idiot moments over a long career. But on the biggest stage in baseball, he showed a lot of class, and that counts for something.

Maybe Rogers was cheating, and maybe not. But if La Russa gets into it, then it becomes a different kind of controversy. In the event, any unfair advantage was eliminated, and the Cards still couldn't win.

La Russa's words, "If it gets fixed, let's play the game," demonstrate that he's got his priorities straight. It's about playing the game, not wheedling every possible advantage out of a situation.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by mbyron

MLB managers are always controversial figures, and La Russa has had his idiot moments over a long career. But on the biggest stage in baseball, he showed a lot of class, and that counts for something.

Maybe Rogers was cheating, and maybe not. But if La Russa gets into it, then it becomes a different kind of controversy. In the event, any unfair advantage was eliminated, and the Cards still couldn't win.

La Russa's words, "If it gets fixed, let's play the game," demonstrate that he's got his priorities straight. It's about playing the game, not wheedling every possible advantage out of a situation.

You're giving LaRussa far too much credit. I believe his low key approach has more to do with Leyland knowing where the bodies are buried in St. Louis side of the field. Leyland worked with LaRussa.

LaRussa's skirt isn't all that clean. If he had come out and demanded a cavity search of Rogers, Leyland would have come out and the St, Louis pitchers, or the source of their goo, would be subjected to the same treatment.

LaRussa practically admitted this with a comment that basically said that everyone was looking for an edge and as along as it didn't go too far, it was okay.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by GarthB

You're giving LaRussa far too much credit. I believe his low key approach has more to do with Leyland knowing where the bodies are buried in St. Louis side of the field. LaRussa's skirt isn't all that clean.

If LaRussa had come out and demanded a cavity search of Rogers, Leyland would have come out and the the St, Louis pitchers, or the source of their goo, would be subjected to the same treatment.

LaRussa practically admitted this with a comment that basically said that everyone was looking for an edge and as along as it didn't go too far, it was okay.

I'm so disillusioned. I hope that you're wrong: the comment you mention did not appear in the earlier post. Where did you see or hear him say that? (I'm curious, not denying what you say.)

A couple things are hard to square with your interpretation: (1) why is Leyland different from any other manager? Surely there aren't any secrets among the grizzled veterans. (2) If LaRussa were motivated as you say, why bring up the matter at all? Doesn't he run the risk of escalation merely from mentioning it to the umpires?