Roger's finger 'stuff'

[UmpJM]

Big Tex,

While I would certainly concur in regards to pine tar, etc. there actually IS one "foreign substance" the pitcher is allowed to have on his pitching hand. Says so right there in the rules.

JM

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Big Tex,

While I would certainly concur in regards to pine tar, etc. there actually IS one "foreign substance" the pitcher is allowed to have on his pitching hand. Says so right there in the rules.

JM

Rosin.....sorry, I stand corrected.

[lagunaump]

This was in the first inning and he was told to wash it off whatever it was. Then he continued to shut out the Cardinals. It seems to me that it had no bearing what so ever in the outcome of the game.

[sj]

....had no bearing

Except to state the what if case of... what if he should have been ejected.

Here's one for debate. If the umps had knowlege that there was something on his hand. They never looked to see what it was. Why not? Did they not want to find out because to do so may have put them into the position of having to kick him out? Did they handle it according to protocol? I certainly don't know the answer to any questions but just want to hear what everybody says.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by blueump

So a pitcher bats, gets pine tar on his hand, and is ejected for having a foreign substance on his hand??? Back to my original question which ... um ...you responded to:

How is pine tar a foreign substance in baseball?

Foreign substance or not, it's obviously against the rules for a pitcher to have pine tar on 'em.

Brendan Donnelly of the LA Angels got an 8-game suspension in 2005 for having pine tar on his glove. Julian Tavarez of the St. Louis Cardinals got a 10-day suspension in 2004 when Joe West found pine tar on the brim of his cap(gee, I wonder how LaRussa knew about the rule last night? ). And as I said before , Jay Howell of the Dodgers got 3 games in the NLCS in 1988 for having pine tar on his glove.

You don't have to be found using it, according to the reports that I read. If they find it on a pitcher, you get a vacation.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by s

Here's one for debate. If the umps had knowlege that there was something on his hand. They never looked to see what it was. Why not? Did they not want to find out because to do so may have put them into the position of having to kick him out? Did they handle it according to protocol? I certainly don't know the answer to any questions but just want to hear what everybody says.

This is just speculation but here's what I think happened. The Cardinals noticed something on Roger's pitching hand so LaRussa brought it up to the attention of HP umpire Alfonso Marquez. Fonzie probably asked if he wanted him to confront Rogers to see exactly what it was. LaRussa, not wanting to "disrespect" Leyland, probably just told Marquez that wasn't necessary but whatever it was, to make sure it's gone by the next time he comes out to pitch. Thus, Marquez told Rogers as he was coming off the field "hey Kenny, I don't know what that brown crap is on your hand, but do me a favor and get rid of that stain by the next time you come out here"

You have to remember, umpires don't go looking for boogers unless they have to. They are not going to accuse a player of cheating unless a member of the opposing team brings it up. If LaRussa wanted to make a big deal about it - he could have forced the umpires to go inspect the hand. However, if you going to call someone out like that, you better be sure that he is guilty of something or else it could blow up in your face. LaRussa, probably not wanting to take that chance, just asked Marquez to have Rogers clean his hands. Rogers did that and still shut them out over the next 7 innings - that's why LaRussa said it was no big deal.

However, if LaRussa would have asked the umpires to check out the hand for a foreign substance, Crew Chief Randy Marsh would have been put in a no win situation and probably would have been forced to eject Rogers if indeed, there was pinetar on his hand. That would have changed the entire game but LaRussa, not the umpires, chose not to do that.

[NFump]

Pine tar is okay for a batter to have, but it's a no-no for the pitcher. He bats and gets it on his hand, he'd better wash it off before he takes the mound.

[LMan]

I'm amazed that TLR did not call for a formal inspection, buddy or no buddy, showing-up or not. With a World Series game at stake, he's usually got more cojones than he showed there. I'd have my mother inspected if I thought it was necessary and it was the WS... I mean, c'mon!

Very puzzling. Perhaps he thought the Cards would hit Rogers anyway....I suppose he regrets his decision now.

[NFump]

How about this. From the PBUC 6.3: The term "foreign substance" shall include any object, material, or substance that could, in the judgement of the umpires, be used to deface or "doctor" the ball in any manner.

Here's one for debate. If the umps had knowlege that there was something on his hand. They never looked to see what it was. Why not? Did they not want to find out because to do so may have put them into the position of having to kick him out? Did they handle it according to protocol? I certainly don't know the answer to any questions but just want to hear what everybody says. See Rule 8.02(a)(2) through 8.02(a)(6) Comment. I believe that will answer your question.

[mcrowder]

For those of you thinking it was pine tar ... have you ever tried to wash pine tar off your hand? Not a quick fix, folks, and the smell stays with you even afterward. I have no problem believing this was dirt or something else innocent like Shoe Polish... and I'm rooting for the Cards.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

the smell stays with you even afterward.

But smells aren't illegal, are they ?

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

For those of you thinking it was pine tar ... have you ever tried to wash pine tar off your hand? Not a quick fix, folks, and the smell stays with you even afterward. I have no problem believing this was dirt or something else innocent like Shoe Polish... and I'm rooting for the Cards.

shoe polish=foreign substance (illegal)


In big league clubhouses, they have a solvent that takes pine tar off. It is similar to the stuff trainers use to take tape residue off. If you look at he "after" picture, there is still a brown discoloration. I think it was pine tar and somebody told him to take it off.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigTex

shoe polish=foreign substance (illegal)


In big league clubhouses, they have a solvent that takes pine tar off. It is similar to the stuff trainers use to take tape residue off. If you look at he "after" picture, there is still a brown discoloration. I think it was pine tar and somebody told him to take it off.

My question is this: Unless Rogers was trying to cheat (oh, my stars!), why would he have any pine tar residue on his pitching hand? It's not like they were playing in St. Louis, and he had to bat, or even handle a bat at all. He should have been nowhere near the pine tar rag.

I think the pine tar was there for a reason, not by accident. And I'm for the Tigers. Then again, maybe I'm still not over Rogers shoving that cameraman.

[DG]

If we was trying to cheat he would not have a foreign substance on the base of his thumb, which is a location clearly visible on a TV camera. I think his hand was dirty so he was asked to wash to remove the question mark.

[waltjp]

Here's a link showing Kenny Rogers with this substance on his hand during other games. At least one photo is from July, 2006.

Sports Illustrated