throat guard discussion

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Let's see....D-1 official....2003 and 2004 Community College World Series....professionally trained...

Yeah.....he don't know squat.

He may know squat, but it appears he doesn't know how to squat!

I have to go with Ozzy here. This guy looks horrible. Whoever told umpires that touching the catcher was a good thing? Remember, we are only discussing his stance here, not his training or experience.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Let's see....D-1 official....2003 and 2004 Community College World Series....professionally trained...

Yeah.....he don't know squat.

No Garth - he don't know how to squat!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Sorry I beat you to it Ozzy. Great minds and all....

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Sorry I beat you to it Ozzy. Great minds and all....

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

He may know squat, but it appears he doesn't know how to squat!

I have to go with Ozzy here. This guy looks horrible. Whoever told umpires that touching the catcher was a good thing? Remember, we are only discussing his stance here, not his training or experience.

Well, he must have some training or experience or he wouldn't have risen to the level he has.

Regarding the throat guards, wear or don't wear it, but, show me a stance where the throat is not exposed. Why would anyone choose to not wear something that could keep them from dying on the field?

If the throat guard didn't have a function, like the sunshield so many wear in their masks that do absolutely nothing, it would be different. The throat guard is a functional piece of protective equipment.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

No Garth - he don't know how to squat!

Hmmmm. His head height is perfect. He's the correct distance from the catcher for his stance, he is stable.

His performance has earned him a D-1 position and, as mentioned, the community college World Series two years in a row.

I'm sorry, I don't see a problem. But then, I'm probably not near the expert that some folks are.

Jason didn't bargain for ridicule by internet umpires so I have deleted his photos from my post. I'll send him a personal apology this evening.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I prefer the guy working the plate in St. Louis right now. I take my instruction from him.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I prefer the guy working the plate in St. Louis right now. I take my instruction from him.

Let's try to stay on topic. I posted Jason's photo to illustrate a point regarding the possibility of one getting struck by a baseball underneath and behind the lower guard portion of a face mask. There was no intent to utilize the photo as part of a clinic.

Whether or not you feel that Jason's stance is text book, it is accurate in height and distance and stability. That's three elements more than many amateur umpires get right.

Poor Jason. He probably will never be a pro. He's only utilized that stance at levels 95% of amateurs will never see.

[SanDiegoSteve]

So, I'm happy for your friend. I have nothing at all against your friend Jason. I just happened to see my association's chief instructor working the plate in the World Series, and drew my own comparision.

Jason's stance looks like it is vulnerable to balls bouncing up and hitting his throat. So what? So are most stances. Getting hit is part of the game. You have to admit that it's kind of uncanny that two different umpires came up with nearly the exact same response to your "squat" comment, at nearly the exact same time!

You keep insisting that being a D-1 umpire is this great honor, or that it guarantees a quality umpire. I know many D-1 umpires. Some are very good. Some absolutely are not. Not all D-1 umpires are top-notch officials. I have seen a few NCAA Division 1 umpires on TV that would fall into a serious "Smitty" category.

I also know quite a few really great umpires in my area who have no chance at all to work college baseball for reasons I've stated ad nauseum in the past. There are also many other quality umpires here who have no desire to advance higher than HS level. I also know of areas of the country that in order to be a college umpire, all you basically need is to have a pulse and umpire gear.

We never said that Jason wasn't a good umpire. We just thought his stance looked kind of weird. You are the one that brought it off topic by commenting over and over about his professional training and level of baseball.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Jason's stance looks like it is vulnerable to balls bouncing up and hitting his throat. So what? So are most stances. .

Which was the only reason it was posted. Thank you.

The topic became off when some internet umpires decided to move beyond that point.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Let's step back and take a breath . . .

Nick has been consistent in both his support of the HSM and the dangler.

I have worked very hard to not get my panties in a twitter when Nick takes a weird turn in his positioning.

When someone (not Nick BTW) says "my throat guard gets hit SEVERAL times a season" . . . I just call "bull" . . . Even before I worked the GDSS I seldom, if ever, got hit in the throat guard. I can't be that much different than others.

While I think it is ridiculous that people would where a dangler with an HSM it is not any of my business it they do.

Again, I am guessing here:

For an umpire to get hit in the throat(guard) the ball would have to bounce off the ground FIRST then come up under the mask . . .

If this is true then by working the GDSS, which puts me faaaar back, it is nearly impossible for a ball to get under my WestVest Mask . . .

So my only comment about this thread is:

People should be allowed to wear what they want, in terms of equipment, if it makes them more secure and therefore a better umpire.

He11, I even hear some old guys wear forearm guards.

Regards,

I will say, that since I started using the GD, I get hit in the Throat Guard a lot less.

And I will also say, that until I started using the GD, I was considering wearing Forearm Guards. But in the GD, I get hit a lot less in the Forearms. But I still think they are a legitimate piece of equipment. Our Forearms are at great risk, and a very sensitive place to get hit. I know umpires who quit umpiring after taking a severe hit to the Forearm. And these guys aren't sissy's either.

You know, we are armatures, not professionals. We need to protect ourselves as best we can, so we can continue to support our families by our regular jobs. Getting injured during a $50 baseball game, that keeps us from working is not desirable, in any case.

[ozzy6900]

Garth,

Your photo of your friend was a good example of your point. I am sure that many people that saw it thought as you do. My comments were simply to the photo. You know me by now, I don't care if you are a D3, D1 or MLB. If I see a flaw I am going to tell you about it! Your friend's head is too far in front of his body for even the best throat guard to work and that is a fact. He may be the best umpire in his division, that still won't impress the baseball when it bounces into his exposed throat! Now now remember, I am not critiquing his ability as an umpire, I am just giving an observation from the photo.

The moral of this thread is simple, Garth. If you want to wear a throat guard, by all means wear one! If you want to force your son to wear one, that is fine too. There are those of us that do not wear one and there is nothing that you can do about it - it is just that simple! It's nothing to get upset about!

[LMan]

I think Jason has seen enough evals to be able to take a little criticism by some Internet umpires, warranted or not. JMO.

I know that a dangler is a personal decision (I dont wear one), but I gotta admit, I have never seen a HSM with a dangler. I think I'd collapse laughing if I did.

Now, if I get smacked in the throat next season, I'll be the first one to croak to all of you that I was wrong...

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Garth,


The moral of this thread is simple, Garth. If you want to wear a throat guard, by all means wear one! If you want to force your son to wear one, that is fine too. There are those of us that do not wear one and there is nothing that you can do about it - it is just that simple! It's nothing to get upset about!

1. i don't know about the moral of this thread or if there is one. I simply posted in response to someone saying it wasn't possible to get hit under a mask by a baseball.

2. I never said I wore a throat guard, in fact, I don't.

3. My son knows how to umpire better than most folks at this site and is old enough and experienced enough to make his own decisions. I never attempt to force him to do anything.

3. I'm not upset about anything. I just continue to be amazed by the posts of some people.

4. Have a very pleasant day.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Garth,

I can't believe you could make a statement such as #3 (the first #3, that is). I know you're proud of your kid and all, but you have no idea how good most folks at this site are at umpiring, it is just your speculation in most cases. The statement smacks of pride, but is illogical at best. In fact, it should be categorized under your second #3.