What would you do in this situation?

[LLPA13UmpDan]

11-12 Baseball. 2 man crew. Im BU. R1 & R2 on 2nd & 3rd, so im in C position. winning team is batting. Ground ball is hit, PU is watching third, so im making the call at first. I call "Safe, hes off the bag". I hear the defensive (losing) teams coach say "oh come on", then asks the other coach "did he call him safe?, oh no way!" He then walks out of the dugout and yells to me from beside the dugout "get help on that, blue" I'm thinking no-way. I seen what i saw, the first baseman was clearly off the bag i tell him. He then proceeds to come out of the dugout and go toward my partner. I calmly say "no coach, he's off the bag". He ignores me, and i throw him out. he then says "you have to give me a warning a first." im then like "no, there is no warnings on judgement calls" He then walks out. After the inning was over, PU tells me he saw nothing, he was doing his duties with third. After the game, league pres. tells me "the coach has the right to go to the other umpire" Im like no. What do you know about umpiring??? and that was the end of it. Do you think i was too harsh, or did i do the right thing by sticking to my call? Now ive heard of the offensive coach coming to argue that a runner was safe, but not the defensive coach to argue that the runner is out.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

11-12 Baseball. 2 man crew. Im BU. R1 & R2 on 2nd & 3rd, so im in C position. winning team is batting. Ground ball is hit, PU is watching third, so im making the call at first. I call "Safe, hes off the bag". I hear the defensive (losing) teams coach say "oh come on", then asks the other coach "did he call him safe?, oh no way!" He then walks out of the dugout and yells to me from beside the dugout "get help on that, blue" I'm thinking no-way. I seen what i saw, the first baseman was clearly off the bag i tell him. He then proceeds to come out of the dugout and go toward my partner. I calmly say "no coach, he's off the bag". He ignores me, and i throw him out. he then says "you have to give me a warning a first." im then like "no, there is no warnings on judgement calls" He then walks out. After the inning was over, PU tells me he saw nothing, he was doing his duties with third. After the game, league pres. tells me "the coach has the right to go to the other umpire" Im like no. What do you know about umpiring??? and that was the end of it. Do you think i was too harsh, or did i do the right thing by sticking to my call? Now ive heard of the offensive coach coming to argue that a runner was safe, but not the defensive coach to argue that the runner is out.

Hey, you seen what you saw. It's your call to make and you made it. I'm like impressed that you tossed the guy.

[socalblue1]

Dan,

You don't state if this is a 60' or 90' field (With LLPA in your name I can't guess). Either way BU should take BOTH calls, with PU watching for pulled foot/swip tag at 1B.

The mechanics vary slightly on 60' vs 90', but the basics are the same - BU has both plays if the ball stays in the infield.

Some would argue that PU should take 3B on the 60' field. If so, why would we put BU in C?

[LLPA13UmpDan]

11-12 yr old- yeah its on the 60'. PU was assisting, as i had to watch 1st. Noe, he wasnt "covering" third, he was watching R2 & R3 while i watched BR. So of course a play at third or second is my call too. PU helps, i cannot watch R2& R3 while they are behind me, can i? BU is mainly in C for the steal to third. Depends on what happens when the ball is put in play, who covers what. Hope that clears it up.

[mbyron]

Did you really toss the coach for ignoring you? The sentence that gives me that impression is "He ignores me, and i throw him out." I couldn't quite tell whether these clauses were supposed to be related.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Did you really toss the coach for ignoring you? The sentence that gives me that impression is "He ignores me, and i throw him out." I couldn't quite tell whether these clauses were supposed to be related.

He started to go to his partner, then he told him the call again instead of telling him not to go to his partner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

11-12 Baseball. 2 man crew. Im BU. R1 & R2 on 2nd & 3rd, so im in C position. winning team is batting. Ground ball is hit, PU is watching third, so im making the call at first. I call "Safe, hes off the bag". I hear the defensive (losing) teams coach say "oh come on", then asks the other coach "did he call him safe?, oh no way!" He then walks out of the dugout and yells to me from beside the dugout "get help on that, blue" I'm thinking no-way. I seen what i saw, the first baseman was clearly off the bag i tell him. He then proceeds to come out of the dugout and go toward my partner. I calmly say "no coach, he's off the bag". He ignores me, and i throw him out. he then says "you have to give me a warning a first." im then like "no, there is no warnings on judgement calls" He then walks out. After the inning was over, PU tells me he saw nothing, he was doing his duties with third. After the game, league pres. tells me "the coach has the right to go to the other umpire" Im like no. What do you know about umpiring??? and that was the end of it. Do you think i was too harsh, or did i do the right thing by sticking to my call? Now ive heard of the offensive coach coming to argue that a runner was safe, but not the defensive coach to argue that the runner is out.

Smarties Dave & LMan aside, you did a couple of things wrong:

1) You should have told the coach not to go to your partner, not just repeat what you saw on the play. That would be the proper warning. Something like: "Coach, if you continue out to my partner, you're going to be ejected. I had the call all the way and don't have to ask for help."

As it was, the coach still thought he was within his rights to go over your head and ask your partner to overrule you. You should have made it clear that doing such was a no-no. You don't just toss the coach and tell him there are no warnings on judgment calls. He needs to know the real reason why you are about to run him.

2) After any controversy or ejection, you should never get together at that half-inning break to converse with your partner. At the end of that inning, you should have trotted on out to short right-center and stood there.

The league president in this case is wrong, the coach has absolutely no business going to your partner. If you are unsure, it's you that must go to your partner, who in this case was pickin' daisies or something. He should have been watching for a pulled foot or swipe tag. What the hell does he need to watch the baserunners for anyway? Nothing can happen without the baseball, and to use watching the runners as an excuse is total BS. It sounds like your partner is as inexperienced as you are.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Something like: "Coach, if you continue out to my partner, you're going to be ejected. I had the call all the way and don't have to ask for help."

You should NEVER EVER EVER tell a coach, "Coach if you do (or don't do) X, you're going to be ejected." NEVER.

[LakeErieUmp]

Agreed! The very few times I have had a coach wishing jump out of a dugout a simple "don't come out here" usually gets the point across without the threat.

[DG]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

11-12 Baseball. 2 man crew. Im BU. R1 & R2 on 2nd & 3rd, so im in C position. winning team is batting. Ground ball is hit, PU is watching third, so im making the call at first. I call "Safe, hes off the bag". I hear the defensive (losing) teams coach say "oh come on", then asks the other coach "did he call him safe?, oh no way!" He then walks out of the dugout and yells to me from beside the dugout "get help on that, blue" I'm thinking no-way. I seen what i saw, the first baseman was clearly off the bag i tell him. He then proceeds to come out of the dugout and go toward my partner. I calmly say "no coach, he's off the bag". He ignores me, and i throw him out. he then says "you have to give me a warning a first." im then like "no, there is no warnings on judgement calls" He then walks out. After the inning was over, PU tells me he saw nothing, he was doing his duties with third. After the game, league pres. tells me "the coach has the right to go to the other umpire" Im like no. What do you know about umpiring??? and that was the end of it. Do you think i was too harsh, or did i do the right thing by sticking to my call? Now ive heard of the offensive coach coming to argue that a runner was safe, but not the defensive coach to argue that the runner is out.

I would not toss if the guy wanted to talk with my partner. I would expect partner to throw water on the guy.

League presidents don't always know what they are talking about so I take them with a grain of salt.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

my partner was very experienced actually. When i said "no" i meant no im not going for help, then before he was ejected i told him "no" as in dont go to HP ump, go back to the dugout

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

my partner was very experienced actually. When i said "no" i meant no im not going for help, then before he was ejected i told him "no" as in dont go to HP ump, go back to the dugout

so now you expect him to be a mind reader so he can determine what you are saying no to? see steve's post.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

im then like "no, there is no warnings on judgement calls"

i was going to preceed this with "pardon my french" but you didn't give any sort of apology for your english. soooo, WTF are you talking about???

there are certain things that warrant an unwarned ejection. things such as contact with you, blatant profanity directed at you or your partner, and throwing at a kid's head come to mind. your described situation 100% needed a warning as outlined in steve's post. furthermore, by telling him, "there is no warnings on judgement calls," you have now talked yourself into a corner and thrown fuel on the fire.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

He then walks out of the dugout and yells to me from beside the dugout "get help on that, blue" I'm thinking no-way. I seen what i saw, the first baseman was clearly off the bag i tell him. He then proceeds to come out of the dugout and go toward my partner.

You should have nipped it in the bud right here.

A coach who starts out of the dugout yelling at you should immediately be told to return to his dugout. If he doesn't understand that proper decorum dictates that he be granted time to come out to discuss a call, he'll soon get the message if you remind him to return to the dugout. If he keeps coming out, dump him.


Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

Dudes,

Y'all can't handle a Little League coach better than this, I feel sorry for you when you have some one with fuzz chewing your butt. So your partner is a little inexperienced. Don't take yourself so serious. Put him back in the dugout and be done with it.

He claims that his partner was very experienced, so what's your point?


Tim.