Foul Ball Called in Error

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

But Oz, he wasn't asking whether you have to stick with the FOUL call - he seemed to already know that. Your reply, while being correct information, did not answer his actual question. It merely reiterated something he already seemed to know.

He was asking - when you're stuck with a FOUL call that you made but you know was wrong, should you fess up to the mistake or invent an excuse ("or tell them the ball hit the bat, then the batter.").

You say:

But this is EXACTLY what he as asking for advice on ... what he should or shouldn't say.

I think I see what you are getting at here. I was saying to tell the truth but I guess that is too broad a statement. No problem as there have been numerous posts stating the same thing just in better detail.

Don't look now, but the size of my mental block is showing!

[BretMan]

Coach, its a foul ball because the PU called a foul. By rule, (since this is FED), if an umpire calls it foul its foul whether right or wrong ...

Well, it isn't foul ALL of the time!

But that explanation does work on this particular play.

Just pray that the other situation doesn't come up later where an umpire declares a ball "foul" and it isn't. Then you'll have some real 'splainin' to do!

[NY87]

Thanks all for the replies and opinions.

A clarification:

Originally Posted by NY87

Offense immediately wants to know why foul was called, shouts out "the ball hit the bat".

Those comments and questions were directed to my partner. That was just about the moment he probably realized: oops - why did I call that foul?

The overwhelming consensus has been, admit the mistake.

In this particular game, I was the senior umpire; my partner is new to the association. If you were in a similar situation, do you advise the newbie to admit his goof, or let him figure it out on his own?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Well, it isn't foul ALL of the time!

But that explanation does work on this particular play.

Just pray that the other situation doesn't come up later where an umpire declares a ball "foul" and it isn't. Then you'll have some real 'splainin' to do!

Many years ago I was working the plate in a small college game (I was fairly new to this business). My partner was a 30+ year veteran. Late in the game, 2 outs & no one on. The batter hits one down the RF line (almost to the fence), my partner goes down the line and I move into position to take the BR around the bases. I glance at the ball just as it hits the line (a small ‘puff’ of chalk) but suddenly I hear my partner yell “FOUL.” Obviously all action stopped and a very angry coach came boiling out of the dugout.

He took off toward my partner yelling,
“You can’t do that to us Doug”
“What were you watching? It certainly wasn’t the ball”
“Couldn’t you see the cloud of chalk?”
“Ask your partner, I bet he saw it from where he was”

This was long before the move to the “kinder & gentler” umpires that we have today, so Doug ran him. Doug was a live or die with the call type of umpire so right or wrong the coach was gone. On his way out the coach said to me.

“I know that you saw the chalk, I can see it in your eyes.” I didn’t say a word or move a muscle.
Then he asked me, “Al can you ask Doug to get his eyes checked?”

Later the local news showed the “highlights” of the game and the ball hitting the chalk about a dozen times. I’ll never forget that game

[LMan]

I like Doug already.

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by LMan

I like Doug already.

Thank you.

And Doug likes you, too.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

Always admit your mistake. There in no right way to do anything wrong. Unless it was a judgment call or a call that can fixed, just move on. The only time this call was changed in a game of mine was in a similiar situation of yours. Freshman game and a newer ump behind the plate. Batter hits a little fly out between the mound and third base line. Pitcher slides and tries to catch the ball, but knocks it into foul territory. He declares the ball foul. Offensive coach is coach is peeved. He comes to me for clarification, and I tell him what's done is done. However, since it is late in the game and game is well in the hand of the defensive team, WE admit our mistake, consult with both coaches, and award batter first. A lesson learned for one and we walked off the field together. Now this wouldn't happen in a higher level game, but I wouldn't expect to be working a varsity game with a newer member either.

It's good that you fixed this. If you work a varsity game with a partner who makes this mistake, you probably better fix it there too. Otherwise, you could have a protestable call. This wasn't a judgement call from the way you've described it.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by NY87

Those comments and questions were directed to my partner. That was just about the moment he probably realized: oops - why did I call that foul?

The overwhelming consensus has been, admit the mistake.

In this particular game, I was the senior umpire; my partner is new to the association. If you were in a similar situation, do you advise the newbie to admit his goof, or let him figure it out on his own?

A new question. You are the senior guy and the new PU comes to you for help. you should first discuss the play. Ask him what he saw and heard and explain what you think the correct ruling is and that based on what he has told you the correct ruling is not "Foul", but it is a call that will have to stand. And, that he will need to explain to the coach complaining that he made a mistake, and the call can't be reversed. If he wants your help then walk over with him to the coach for the explanation, but he will need to do the explaining and you should only speak if the coach does not want to accept the explanation.

I expect the explanation will go well and the coach will accept it but if the coach becomes personal, profane or prolonged you may have to advise your new umpire it is time toss this guy.