test question

[ggk]

i'm reviewing an old ncaa test. i'm bit confused by the answer and would appreciate any help.

q.
r2 and r1. F1 attempts a pick-off at 1st. R1 is obstructed on his way back to the bag. the throw gets by F3 and rolls down the RF line. R1 advances to 2nd. R2 rounds 3rd and heads for home and is thrown out at the plate.

answers ( you can choose one or more)
a. ball remains alive
b. play should be killed at time of obstruction.
c. R2 should have been awarded 3rd and R1 awarded 2nd.
d. R2 is out

what do you think? remember - ncaa.
thanks.

[UmpJM]

ggk,

A, C, D.

Under NCAA rules, whether the obstructed runner is being played upon or not, the ball remains live. (8.3.E(1 & 2)). This is similar to FED (& different from OBR).

The obstructed runner is awarded a minimum of one advance base when he is obstructed while a play is being made on him. This is similar to OBR and different from FED. (In FED, he gets an advance base whether he's being played upon or not.)

The R2 is "awarded" 3B because he is "forced" by the R1's minimum award of 2B.

If a runner attempts to advance beyond his "protected to" base, he does so "in jeopardy". The R2 attempted to advance beyond his "protected to" base. He was thrown out. He's out.

What did the answer key say?

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

I'm with PWL on this one. A and D only, because you don't award for the obstruction until the play is over, and R2 ends up being thrown out, so no award.

[mbyron]

JM got it.

R2 is awarded 3B on the obstruction because forced to advance by the award to R1. He advanced beyond the base he was awarded, and therefore liable to be put out. The out stands. ACD, QED.

[ggk]

i saw it as A and D. in ncaa - clearly the ball is live and the runner is liable to be put out if he advances beyond the base he would have been awarded.
the test is from 2003 and the answer they provide is B and C.

i believe in PRO rules this is type A obstruction and the ball is immediately dead and you award R2 3rd and R1 2nd.

has the ncaa rule changed in the last few years??
thanks.

[ctblu40]

The correct answers to this question are A,C, and D. Coach gave you the correct rule reference for the 2006 book. The current rule came into effect in 2005 (I believe).
By the way, ggk, how's the studying going? Do you have a copy of the 2006 book?

[ggk]

studying is going well. these old tests are a good study aid. but the out of date questions are killing me. i do have an 06 rule book. that is why i couldn't figure out how they got the answer they did.

do you really think that C is correct as well as A and D. i know that these are the correct awards, but if the play continues we don't make these awards.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by ggk

do you really think that C is correct as well as A and D. i know that these are the correct awards, but if the play continues we don't make these awards.

I am pretty sure that this is the way the answers are listed on the NCAA test. I think I have about 200 sample questions, the correct answers, and the book references kicking around here somewhere. I'll try to locate my 'study packet' from last year for you. If I find it, I'll PM you if you're interested.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by ggk

do you really think that C is correct as well as A and D. i know that these are the correct awards, but if the play continues we don't make these awards.

ggk,

If it's any comfort, I kind of "hemmed and hawed" over whether to include "C" as a correct answer. It really gets down to what the testmaker was looking for.

You certainly don't put R2 BACK on 3B if he gets thrown out at home. But, if he hadn't been thrown out, the award of 2B to the obstructed runner would have "forced" an award of 3B to R2. In this case, you could know how to apply the rule and not answer the question "correctly" in terms of what the testmaker had in mind. Not an especially good question in that regard.

In OBR rules, this sitch would indeed be Type A Obstruction and the ball would be immediately dead upon the obstruction. The NCAA 2004 Rule Book says the ball remains in play regardless of whether the obstructed runner is being played upon until the continuous action of the play comes to an end. Don't know when/if this changed, but that's how it was in 2004.

JM

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

In this case, you could know how to apply the rule and not answer the question "correctly" in terms of what the testmaker had in mind. Not an especially good question in that regard.

Which is exactly why the NCAA test is such a pain in the a$$!

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by PWL

Read the question again and you will find why C in an incorrect answer. Do not put more into it. Let play finish and award bases. Sounds as if R1 made his award, R2 would be irrelevant in this case. Whatever happens to him has no bearing on the award of R1 whatsoever. Just worry about the runner the obstruction is made on.

PWL,

I don't disagree with what you say about how the play would be properly ruled.

Taking "rules test" can be a different matter. I don't know what the "answer key" says on this one. Your answer could be right, or mine could. We both agree on how the play should be ruled. That's what's important. Unless you're taking the test, of course.

If you keep up with this posting of intelligent and informed responses, without resorting to personal attacks, people on this board might start taking you seriously.

Just a thought.

JM

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by PWL

How is this a personal attack? R2 is not afforded any protection on this play. If he gets thrown out advancing to 3B, he is still out. All I'm saying is don't read more into the question than was posed. It gave you the play and situation that happened. Nothing more, nothing less. I have taken state tests and done quite well on them. So if you feel I am unintelligent and uninformed, fine. Get in line. It's just an opinion driven forum, only some people seem to think their opinions are the only ones that matter. So I was born with a spine, sue me.

PWL,

One more time. If you read what I actually wrote, you will see that I said:

1. You made an intelligent and informed response to the question at hand.

2. You refrained from making a personal attack on anyone.

3. I was encouraging you to continue in a like vein.

Chill out, Dude. Don't you know how to take a compliment?

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

And for the record, just who was it that first agreed with PWL's answer? Huh? Huh?

[tiger49]

I would just have answered A & D. I say this because obstruction was not commited on R2 but only on R1, if R2 was say thrown out at 3rd would he not be out?

[Clint Lawson]

College does not play the a and b obstruction like pro rules? I would say B because there is a play being made on the runner.

Clint