When to signal, or not to...

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Old Time Ump

Mr. Agee, whether you give a hand signal or not when the situation is obvious is entirely up to you. What is more important in my judgment is how you give all your signals. I hope you will eschew the
'selling' and 'banging' histrionics which has become so popular among umpires today. Your decisions can (should) always be conveyed by a casual gesture. It is not for an umpire to add emotion to the play. Consider , if you will, what is being expressed when a PU does his merry dance on a called third strike. 'Punching out', so to speak. The act is an emotional outburst in praise of the pitcher' achievment. Why then should not the same __or a similar_dance occur on a called Ball Four which would acclaim the batter's great eye? Obtain a film of Chris Pelekoudas doing a National League game in the '60s. His casual and slow signals constituted an art form that is sadly missed today. McClelland and Froemming are as close to him as you can find among the current staff.

I can't help it... this has gotta be one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen!


Edited because I can't spell for beans!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

I can't help it... this has gotta be one of the most rediculous posts I've ever seen!

LOL......

JThomas(Old Ump) from McGriffs has found this site.

And he still don't own any rulebooks- in any sport.

[kylejt]

I love the old guys post. And I will use "his merry dance" reference in my upcoming clinics.

Classics stuff, and I respect his point of view. Me, I am a Ron Luciano fan. Shooting guys out at first from a knee, etc. No big punchouts, unless I have a big situation in a big game. I let the situation dictate the emotion of the call.

[ggk]

how about routine fly balls? do you guys signal anything. as a BU i used to give a very casual out signal, but a college guy got on my case for even that. he said that i shouldn't do anything unless there is some question - catch below the knee, etc.
if i'm PU and i have the ball i will casually tell my partner (who is watching the runner) that the ball was caught ("that's a catch, bill') but that is it.
i have some partners who scream 'catch' on every can of corn and i think it is a bit much. thoughts?

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by ggk

how about routine fly balls? do you guys signal anything. as a BU i used to give a very casual out signal, but a college guy got on my case for even that. he said that i shouldn't do anything unless there is some question - catch below the knee, etc.
if i'm PU and i have the ball i will casually tell my partner (who is watching the runner) that the ball was caught ("that's a catch, bill') but that is it.
i have some partners who scream 'catch' on every can of corn and i think it is a bit much. thoughts?

PBUC mechanic is not to signal anything on a routine catch, ect. I was working this year with one of the better umpires in the state (worked HS Division I chamionships, regionals, ect.) and he got on my case about not signaling routine outs when in B or C on fly balls hit to the outfield.

[TussAgee11]

So, if there is question, do something. Always signal outs, not neccessarily safes.

Thanks for entertaining my question.

[aceholleran]

Tuss, I agree on the "no safe" call.

I use the Aunt Tessie logic (she was a character invented by my dad). When even Aunt T. in the stands knows he's safe, then don't bother. Too many "safes", IMHO, look amateurish. On the distaff side, cans o' corn on fly balls need no "out" call either.

Yes, I give a pianissimo verbal on swinging strikes. Dave Hensley beats me up about this, as will some of our other august members. I believe every pitch demands a verbal from PU, excepting obviously foul balls.

I also add a little emphasis to an unchecked swing or simpering bunt offer. I point with the left hand and say "He went," but not too loudly, more like mezzo-forte. I try not to overuse this, but I believe this can be a very good communicator.

In general, as age and level of players rise, less needs to be communciated by arbiters.

Gang, I saw Tuss (U3) put on a great show this year on a tetchy fair/foul down the LF line. I was U1 and needed his input as I cut into the infield to watch B-r touch 1B. It was a key spot in the game, and, if I recall correctly, a fair ball here would have changed the complexion of the game. Mayhaps he overdid it, but in sitches like this, I like overkill better than diffidence.

I think this is a really valuable thread. I'd like to see more of our members chime in on what mechanics they use and eschew.

Ace

[SanDiegoSteve]

I like a sotto voce on swinging strikes.

[David B]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

Tuss, I agree on the "no safe" call.

I use the Aunt Tessie logic (she was a character invented by my dad). When even Aunt T. in the stands knows he's safe, then don't bother. Too many "safes", IMHO, look amateurish. On the distaff side, cans o' corn on fly balls need no "out" call either.

Yes, I give a pianissimo verbal on swinging strikes. Dave Hensley beats me up about this, as will some of our other august members. I believe every pitch demands a verbal from PU, excepting obviously foul balls.

I also add a little emphasis to an unchecked swing or simpering bunt offer. I point with the left hand and say "He went," but not too loudly, more like mezzo-forte. I try not to overuse this, but I believe this can be a very good communicator.

In general, as age and level of players rise, less needs to be communciated by arbiters.

Gang, I saw Tuss (U3) put on a great show this year on a tetchy fair/foul down the LF line. I was U1 and needed his input as I cut into the infield to watch B-r touch 1B. It was a key spot in the game, and, if I recall correctly, a fair ball here would have changed the complexion of the game. Mayhaps he overdid it, but in sitches like this, I like overkill better than diffidence.

I think this is a really valuable thread. I'd like to see more of our members chime in on what mechanics they use and eschew.

Ace

I think and teach that the most important thing an umpire does is often his signals. Players and coaches can't always hear an umpire (especially when there's a big crowd etc., )

However, I use the signal when necessary approach on pick off plays and other obvious.

But for a young umpire, if he wants to signal that's fine, I can get away with it while he can't.

But if a play demands a signal it needs to be there. Catch no catch always needs a "selling" signal especially in the outfield. (I've seen this happen in a state championship HS game that cost a team two outs simply because the umpire did NOT give a catch/no catch signal.)

But I've also seen guys who "overkill" every signal. Kind of like yelling foul on an obvious foul ball. I saw a guy on TV this weekend (LLWS) who was in LF flying like a bird on a ball that wasn't even close to being caught! Everyone knew it was a base hit so it demands nothing from the umpire.

Thanks
David

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by ggk

how about routine fly balls? do you guys signal anything. as a BU i used to give a very casual out signal, but a college guy got on my case for even that. he said that i shouldn't do anything unless there is some question - catch below the knee, etc.
if i'm PU and i have the ball i will casually tell my partner (who is watching the runner) that the ball was caught ("that's a catch, bill') but that is it.
i have some partners who scream 'catch' on every can of corn and i think it is a bit much. thoughts?

If I'm PU and working just two man and BU is coming in to watch the touch at first and take the runner, I'll give a soft "That's a catch, Bill" on a can of corn as a courtesy to keep him from wondering what the F is going on.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

If I'm PU and working just two man and BU is coming in to watch the touch at first and take the runner, I'll give a soft "That's a catch, Bill" on a can of corn as a courtesy to keep him from wondering what the F is going on.

What if the BU's name isn't Bill?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

What if the BU's name isn't Bill?

That's what pregames are for:

BU: Hi, I'm Kevin.
ME: No, you're Bill.

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by GarthB

That's what pregames are for:

BU: Hi, I'm Kevin.
ME: No, you're Bill.

Too effin' funny. Posts like this are why I still lurk here.

Ace

[lawump]

Originally Posted by GarthB

That's what pregames are for:

BU: Hi, I'm Kevin.
ME: No, you're Bill.

Come on, all together now:

I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill.
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.

Thank You, Schoolhouse rocks.