What's The Signal

[rj]

In a HS girls FP softball game last night I was BU working with a very senior PU. A pitch came very close to hitting a batter; close enough for the coach to yell to her player "did you get hit" to which the player shook her head yes and pointed to her elbow. The PU told the coach he did not think the batter was hit so the coach yelled to me for a call and the PU motioned to me for what did I see. My question is; what signal do I give the PU to communicate that I did not think the batter got hit. I asked my PU after the game what the signal should be and he didn't know for sure. I'm only a second year ump so I want to make sure I get this right for the future.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by rj
In a HS girls FP softball game last night I was BU working with a very senior PU. A pitch came very close to hitting a batter; close enough for the coach to yell to her player "did you get hit" to which the player shook her head yes and pointed to her elbow. The PU told the coach he did not think the batter was hit so the coach yelled to me for a call and the PU motioned to me for what did I see. My question is; what signal do I give the PU to communicate that I did not think the batter got hit. I asked my PU after the game what the signal should be and he didn't know for sure. I'm only a second year ump so I want to make sure I get this right for the future.

How did the PU "signal" to you for a call?

This is probably something that should have taken place in a quiet conversation, not across the field. If it was that close and the two main components couldn't agree, what the hell can you see from 70+ feet away. After all, the coach was probably closer to the play and wasn't sure!

Your partner openly dumped a call on you that s/he shouldn't have.

BTW, a coach yelling at me concerning someone else's call is not a good thing, at least, not for the coach.

[aevans410]

Mike, first off I agree totally with you. Lets say you were the BU and someone did that to you. You know the PU doesn't have the guts to tell the coach that he has the call and puts you as the BU on the spot. How do you as BU react? Would you proactively "nip it in the bud" by telling the coach that if the PU needs help, the PU will come to you? Would you "help" the PU out and have a conversation with him after the game? Would you let it slide totally?

The reason I ask this is because it HAS happened to me. Every time it has, I told the coach that I didn't see anything different than what the PU saw (which was the truth). I'd like to see how some of the vets handle getting a call dumped into your lap.

[mick]

Originally posted by rj
I asked my PU after the game what the signal should be and he didn't know for sure. I'm only a second year ump so I want to make sure I get this right for the future.

rj,
I'd say one of two things:

YU.P., I saw it hit her.

Nope, I didn't see it hit her.
mick

[rhsc]

Originally posted by mick

rj,
I'd say one of two things:

YU.P., I saw it hit her.

Nope, I didn't see it hit her.
mick

Thx yoda..your wisdom reveals your true nature - totally oblivious.

[mick]

Originally posted by rhsc

Thx yoda..your wisdom reveals your true nature - totally oblivious.

And you would do what...?
mick

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally posted by aevans410
Mike, first off I agree totally with you. Lets say you were the BU and someone did that to you. You know the PU doesn't have the guts to tell the coach that he has the call and puts you as the BU on the spot. How do you as BU react? Would you proactively "nip it in the bud" by telling the coach that if the PU needs help, the PU will come to you? Would you "help" the PU out and have a conversation with him after the game? Would you let it slide totally?

The reason I ask this is because it HAS happened to me. Every time it has, I told the coach that I didn't see anything different than what the PU saw (which was the truth). I'd like to see how some of the vets handle getting a call dumped into your lap.

As a plate umpire working the slot, I note that the mechanics sometimes cause you to momentarily lose the ball on the high tight pitch. If a coach asks me if I will ask my partner if he, by chance, saw something I may have missed, it is my job to ask, not to state it is my call.

As a base umpire, if the plate umpire asks, I answer with what I saw, or didn't. No "mirror" calls; answer the question asked to try to get the call right. If the coach asks me, I advise the coach he must talk to the umpire who made the call.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

RJ,

There is no signal.

This is truly the plate umpire's call. He shouldn't have deferred to you.

Now with that in mind, I'm with Mick. If I absolutely saw the ball hit her (positively), I would nod my head and state that "Yes, it hit her." I cannot imagine myself in that scenario. The ball would have to bounce away and not be caught by the catcher before I would be positive. And if that were to happen then everybody would know that she was hit - no questions would be asked. A slight brushing would not leave me positively certain and would not receive a positive reply.

Nod - up and down motion (Yes).
Shake - side to side motion (No).

I guess those could be the possible 'signals.'

Of course there is still the reqirement of the batter to avoid the pitch... before she gets awarded first.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by rj
what signal do I give

One of the things I tell my partners that I will do is answer them honestly. If they want to know in private, then come close. If they yell a question across the field I will yell an answer back. In this case... maybe a catcher stood up in front of him and he missed it. If I was BU when he asked, I would have said, "No, the ball did not hit her" and maybe gave a safe signal out of habit. I don't think that is really needed because the verbal communication gives him his answer. If I thought she was hit, I would have said, "Yes, the pitch hit her" and probably tapped the part of the body that it hit, as long as it is not a 'naughty' part. In either case I would not preceed the statement with "I think..."

If the PU's view was not obstructed by a catcher or something else, then I agree with others that he is pawning the call off on you. After the game tell him he owes you a beer (or dinner or whatever) since you were having to make his calls for him. If you do it right, with a grin and not accusatory, he might get the idea and perhaps try harder next time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

The PU told the coach he did not think the batter was hit

This statement is what leads me to believe the umpire was not blocked.

As all good umpires know, you don't alibi. If you didn't see it, acknowledge it and go to your partner the second it comes into question. In turn, the partner should not alibi either. Either s/he definitely saw the ball hit the batter or the ruling must be that the batter wasn't hit.

[rhsc]

And you would do what...?
mick [/B]

Relax, just a cheap shot.
Why is it everybody but the newer posters can cut-up here without gettin somebody upset?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by rhsc

Relax, just a cheap shot.
Why is it everybody but the newer posters can cut-up here without gettin somebody upset?

[/B]

Simple - it's no different than being the new guy at a party. Everyone needs to get to know you, so to speak. We can't tell if you're being a jerk, being funny, or think being a jerk IS being funny!

This happened to me several years ago. Pitch came in high and inside, batter made a check swing turning her shoulders forward blocking the PU. Ball hit her on the wrist. He called a foul ball. Base coach started yelling the ball hit her. There was a runner in first so I was toward second base; my partner asked me across the field “Did the pitch hit her?” I held up my right hand and tapped my wrist with my left fingers saying “yes it hit her.” The base coach started saying she gets to go to first when the defensive coach started complaining she swung at the pitch. Again my partner asked “did she go?” I gave the hammer sign and said “Yes”. The base coach asked “she still get first doesn’t she?” “No coach, it is a dead ball and a strike.” I think your partner sets the tone, if he asked you across the field you give him the answer across the field. If he wants to talk in private then get together and talk. Of course if there was something that needed to be said in private I would walk over.

[debeau]

Its all about team work to get it right .
I dont want to mis direct the thread so I will move it to signals / discussions on the diamond