Coach slaps Player...

[pdxblue]

I guess back to the question(s) at hand..........

I have never read anywhere, in any rule book where you can eject a "person" for striking at another "person" on the same team. So, even if this slap happened on the mound, I can't find a rule that says "eject the slapper".

Now, if I witnessed a coach slap a player who is a minor, I will be looking for ANY reason after that you eject that coach. Really. There is NO reason to slap a player, ESPECIALLY a 12 year old!!! The coach could have benched the kid, but he certainly didn't need to slap him! So, while I can't per se do anything about the slap incident, I can make sure this coach doesn't argue another ball/stike/safe/out call without having an early out!

I REALLY hate ostrich umpires when it comes to dugout behavior. I do not go for sniping from the dugout, and profanity that I can hear on the field from the dugout can usually be heard in the stands, which means it is something I SHOULD be dealing with. All the rule books I umpired under this year specifically say to deal with profanity that can be heard in the stands, EVEN in minor league baseball!

So, the kid yelling out the f-bomb is something I should be doing something about IF I hear it. I may not eject that first time, but there is going to be a warning that EVERYBODY can hear and you will find me staring at their bench after close calls after this warning. Yup, I AM looking for trouble over there, and THAT IS MY JOB!

I don't really want to hijack this thread and turn it into a bench sniping thread, because I believe there are other well-discussed bench sniping threads, but, umpires overall at the amature level should be working to make sure bench sniping does not continue once it starts. I have worked college games with guys that just ignore it, and that really irks me! Almost always, after warning a bench about conduct, somebody from that same team thanks me for doing so. This tells me that many players/coaches don't like bench sniping either, and appreciates an umpire with the balls to deal with it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

I guess back to the question(s) at hand..........

I have never read anywhere, in any rule book where you can eject a "person" for striking at another "person" on the same team. So, even if this slap happened on the mound, I can't find a rule that says "eject the slapper".

Now, if I witnessed a coach slap a player who is a minor, I will be looking for ANY reason after that you eject that coach. Really. There is NO reason to slap a player, ESPECIALLY a 12 year old!!! The coach could have benched the kid, but he certainly didn't need to slap him! So, while I can't per se do anything about the slap incident, I can make sure this coach doesn't argue another ball/stike/safe/out call without having an early out!

I REALLY hate ostrich umpires when it comes to dugout behavior. I do not go for sniping from the dugout, and profanity that I can hear on the field from the dugout can usually be heard in the stands, which means it is something I SHOULD be dealing with. All the rule books I umpired under this year specifically say to deal with profanity that can be heard in the stands, EVEN in minor league baseball!

So, the kid yelling out the f-bomb is something I should be doing something about IF I hear it. I may not eject that first time, but there is going to be a warning that EVERYBODY can hear and you will find me staring at their bench after close calls after this warning. Yup, I AM looking for trouble over there, and THAT IS MY JOB!

I don't really want to hijack this thread and turn it into a bench sniping thread, because I believe there are other well-discussed bench sniping threads, but, umpires overall at the amature level should be working to make sure bench sniping does not continue once it starts. I have worked college games with guys that just ignore it, and that really irks me! Almost always, after warning a bench about conduct, somebody from that same team thanks me for doing so. This tells me that many players/coaches don't like bench sniping either, and appreciates an umpire with the balls to deal with it.

Since when do you need a specific rule to eject someone?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Since when do you need a specific rule to eject someone?

Rich,

I would respectfully suggest that you DO need a rule; I would also suggest that you HAVE one:

9.01
...
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field.

Now, who is it that determines what qualifies as "unsportsmanlike conduct or language"? Seems to me that's a matter of umpire judgment.

JM

[pdxblue]

I won't even grace that question with an answer. It will dawn on you eventually.

[orioles35]

So if I hear a coach verbally absuing his players, continuing to talk to them in a negative fashion ("Quit that sissy pretty boy stuff on the mound, throw the ball right!" or "See what happens when you make errors, you've cost us three runs already!") I can eject that coach for "unsportsmanlike conduct"?

Granted, I wouldn't have my kid play on a team with a coach like that, but I fail to see where our rules get into a coaches behavior towards his players, even if it is humiliating them.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

This coach is the same idiot who, after George Steinbrenner gave the team $5000 towards their travel expenses and whatnot, tried to hold up George for MORE!! Actually called him cheap, and even brought poor A-Rod into it, trying to blackmail him for cash too!

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by tmp44

Geez I post a question, go to bed, and get slaughtered while sleeping!! I never, ever said that I would dump the coach. I was asking if anyone would. FOR THE RECORD...I WOULD NOT EJECT THIS COACH! yeesh. The only reason I asked the question in the first place because there was a FED thread on the basketball board that was somewhat along the same lines. But change the situation...coach slaps his player on the mound instead of in the dugout...or what if what happened in the Blue Jays game last night happened on the mound...now what are all of you doing, especially if it's a FED game...

Oh, and Ozzy..I just finished working my 8th year of baseball, so don't lump me into the rookies that you criticize without giving advice on how to improve their game.

You were not quoted or mentioned there, tmp44 (at least not by me)! I was making a general statement to the forum. Oh and tmp44, you may have 8 years as an umpire but before you run your mouth be aware that many of us here have a little bit more than you. Personally, I am approaching 24 years, there rookie! Re-read my post to be sure you have the right person. Here, let me provide you with a direct quote of myself :

The problem is the inexperienced seem to think that everything needs to be ruled on by the umpires. Of course, when it comes to the game, they are so busy managing everything else that they miss what they are responsible for!

Now the quote went to Tim C. and I don't see your damn name in here at all so go - and sin no more!

[LakeErieUmp]

Here's a philosophic question - if the player was slapped by an ASSISTANT coach (which of course does not exist) what do we do?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by pdxblue

I won't even grace that question with an answer. It will dawn on you eventually.

Let's remember that this is LL, who has some specific criteria in regard to the adult/player relationship. In this case ONLY an umpire would have every right to eject the manager. As far as other youth leagues go - not sure, perhaps others can advise.

As PDX stated, I'm not going looking for trouble in the dugout. If, however this happens in my plain view there is not option except to take action. Some states, such as CA, have specific legal requirements that state certain persons SHALL take action when they witness specific behavior. I happen to fall into that catagory, so my opinion here is going to be biased.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tmp44

Geez I post a question, go to bed, and get slaughtered while sleeping!! I never, ever said that I would dump the coach. I was asking if anyone would. FOR THE RECORD...I WOULD NOT EJECT THIS COACH! yeesh. The only reason I asked the question in the first place because there was a FED thread on the basketball board that was somewhat along the same lines. But change the situation...coach slaps his player on the mound instead of in the dugout...or what if what happened in the Blue Jays game last night happened on the mound...now what are all of you doing, especially if it's a FED game...

I do not know any experienced basketball official with any sense that is going to T up a coach for something said in a huddle. I do not know any experienced baseball umpire that is going eject someone for something said or done in the huddle. Now you are always going to have the guy that read the rulebook and read somewhere how they are responsible for certain conduct, but that is not our primary job. In this case I do not know that many umpires would have even seen what had happen. Remember this was on TV and the dugout is constantly shown. I would not likely have seen this at all because my focus would be on the field and getting to my position.

Peace

[lawump]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Here's a philosophic question - if the player was slapped by an ASSISTANT coach (which of course does not exist) what do we do?

We run back to our dressing room, and change into the uniform of our other sports officiating job: black shoes, black/dark navy pants, light blue shirt with a black/dark navy bowtie.

Then, in our best impersonation of our hero Mills Lane, we yell: "Let's get it on!"

[LakeErieUmp]

That would be His Honor Mills Lane

[GarthB]

I can't believe this is complicated. An adult coach slapped a 12 year old in the face. If he had done it view of me, he'd be gone. This isn't MSBL, NCAA or MLB.

Violence, especially adult on youth, has no place on the field, in the dugout, or just about anywheres. And like another poster here, I would then have a state mandated obligation to report the mf coach to the authorities.

[ChapJim]

Would you watch a grown man assault a child on the street and do nothing? Why would you do nothing here?

[LMan]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Here's a philosophic question - if the player was slapped by an ASSISTANT coach (which of course does not exist) what do we do?

Nothing. That slap does not exist.