Tie goes to runner?

[steve friendly]

I need to know when the ball and the runner touch the base at the same time, what is the call? Thank you

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I need to know when the ball and the runner touch the base at the same time, what is the call? Thank you

Out or safe, depending on the umpire's judgment. The umpire is not going to "see" it as "at the same time," even if the limits of his physical senses actually had it happening at the same time.

[mcrowder]

If the ball touches the bag, I've got nothing unless that ball is in a fielder's possession ... but that's just me.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

...even if the limits of his physical senses actually had it happening at the same time.

I like it. Best description of the perception of two events happening simultaneously that I've seen.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I need to know when the ball and the runner touch the base at the same time, what is the call? Thank you

SMACK=sound of the ball in the glove.
THUMP=sound of the Batter/runner hitting the base

Smack Thump=OUT
Thump Smack=SAFE
THACK or SMUMP=OUT

The tie goes to the umpire.

Joe

[steve friendly]

Thanks for that info guys, but what is the rule? Is he safe or out on an actual tie?

[shickenbottom]

I had a coach come to me once and ask about that whacker that occurred on 1st base. I explained it was close, pop..thud. He asked the same question just asked, "what happens when there is a tie between the ball and the runner."

I came back with a quick retort on the spur of the moment, it got a good laugh from him and myself. It goes like this: "Contrary to popular myths and beliefs, a tie does not belong to the runner, it belongs to the umpire, and umpires like two things, Strikes and Outs."

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

Thanks for that info guys, but what is the rule? Is he safe or out on an actual tie?

Read all of rule 7.00 (the runner) in the official rules of baseball. I will mail you $1,000 for each time you find the word, "tie".

[SanDiegoSteve]

SOFE, no wait, AUT, uh......DO OVER!

[steve friendly]

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

7.08 (e) out.

6.05 (j) safe.

You decide which is correct.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

A strict and literal reading of the rules won't help much, because it would tell you that a "tie" goes to the runner at 1B, but goes to the fielder on force plays at any other base. The truth is the rulesmakers didn't word the rules with any kind of distinction like that in mind; they simply did not consider, or deliberately provide for, the concept of a "tie" in the rules.

The answers you're getting here are as good as you're gonna get, i.e., they're the same answers you'll get from one or more MLB umpires.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

What we are telling you is that there is no such thing as a "tie" in baseball. Most rules historians believe the rulesmakers purposefully refrained from addressing the issue, believing it best to have the runner either safe or out. He has to be one or the other. There is no rule that says, "the tie goes to..." It doesn't exist. Runners are either safe or out. That's why umpires get such huge amounts of money, to make this decision.

Stop fighting reality. Only parents and coaches believe there are ties in baseball. Of course, they also believe the hands are part of the bat, a pitch that hits the dirt is dead, home plate is foul and fast balls rise.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

There is no cut and dried answer anywhere in the rule book (any rule book).

There are no ties, never ever. The runner is either safe or out....everytime!

It's the umpire's judgment.... solely, completely, absolutely..... everytime!
(That's why we make the big bucks)!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

I can't tell if you're joking or not ... so I'll (against my better judgement) answer seriously.

There is no such thing as a tie. And to make certain that's crystal clear, there is no such thing as a tie. Independent events happen independently.

That said, you will find a place in the book (if you read it all) where it says a runner is out if he fails to beat the ball to the bag, and another that says he's safe if the ball fails to beat the runner to the bag (technically, one is BR, the other is just any runner ... but the technicality was not meant for us to rule a tie one way for BR and the other for runners - it's just symantics, and the rule-framers were surely not thinking of ties when they wrote it that way).

You're getting consistent responses that a tie belongs to the umpire. In a sense, since there is no rule mentioning ties at all, this is true - the tie belongs to the umpire. You will find umpires that take this to mean that on bangers, reward the good play, and punish the bad play. I don't personally like it, but you'll find those guys. You'll find guys who will ALWAYS call a banger an out. And you'll find a small minority of guys who will always call a banger safe. MOST of the time, however, to the perception of the umpire, one came before the other - you don't have time to think, "Was that a tie?"

And you'll never find an umpire who says he called a player out because it was a tie (or vice versa). We never "see" a tie.