Tie goes to runner?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

Thanks for that info guys, but what is the rule? Is he safe or out on an actual tie?

I'd scream TIE!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

What we are telling you is that there is no such thing as a "tie" in baseball. Most rules historians believe the rulesmakers purposefully refrained from addressing the issue, believing it best to have the runner either safe or out. He has to be one or the other. There is no rule that says, "the tie goes to..." It doesn't exist. Runners are either safe or out. That's why umpires get such huge amounts of money, to make this decision.

Stop fighting reality. Only parents and coaches believe there are ties in baseball. Of course, they also believe the hands are part of the bat, a pitch that hits the dirt is dead, home plate is foul and fast balls rise.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by GarthB

That's why umpires get such huge amounts of money, to make this decision.

You mean the MLB guys, I hope, cuz it sure isn't most of us

[Justme]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

There is no cut and dried answer anywhere in the rule book (any rule book).

There are no ties, never ever. The runner is either safe or out....everytime!

It's the umpire's judgment.... solely, completely, absolutely..... everytime!
(That's why we make the big bucks)!

[ozzy6900]

Tie goes to the umpire, not the runner - OUT!

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I need to know when the ball and the runner touch the base at the same time, what is the call? Thank you

Out.

Foot did not beat the throw = runner out.
Foot beats throw = runner safe.

It really IS that simple.

[dontcallmeblue]

Ties do not exist.

[SAump]

What we are telling you is that there is no such thing as a "RISE" in baseball. We purposefully refrain from addressing the issue, believing it is best not to leave the issue HANGING over any single pitcher. There is no rule that says, "a rise from his 100 mph velocity..." Thrust, lift, drag, seams, and air flow are ignored. NEW baseballs fall or curve cause of gravity. Of course it doesn't fall or curve 3 feet off the table as predicted on every single pitch either. Every player {8:1} likes the smaller vertical ZONE. The only sound that matters is the crack of the bat or the pop of the mitt. That's why MLB umpires get such huge amounts of money for tracking these pitches. Stop fighting reality and ball everything HIGH and everything that HOPS.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by dontcallmeblue

Ties do not exist.

Ties exist at the beginning of every game, 0-0.
Ump could be right or wrong or have NO clue about Safe or Out call.
Coaches cannot argue for a TIE.
The ties must be broken before the game ends.
Ties may then exist as a result of a ballgame, check league standings.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by steve friendly

I read all of rule 7.0. Your money is safe, but is the runner? How do I contact M.L.B Umpires Association on this one? No one seems to have a cut and dried answer. Not just here on this board, but elswhere. Maybe the umpires association can settle this one. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

I can't tell if you're joking or not ... so I'll (against my better judgement) answer seriously.

There is no such thing as a tie. And to make certain that's crystal clear, there is no such thing as a tie. Independent events happen independently.

That said, you will find a place in the book (if you read it all) where it says a runner is out if he fails to beat the ball to the bag, and another that says he's safe if the ball fails to beat the runner to the bag (technically, one is BR, the other is just any runner ... but the technicality was not meant for us to rule a tie one way for BR and the other for runners - it's just symantics, and the rule-framers were surely not thinking of ties when they wrote it that way).

You're getting consistent responses that a tie belongs to the umpire. In a sense, since there is no rule mentioning ties at all, this is true - the tie belongs to the umpire. You will find umpires that take this to mean that on bangers, reward the good play, and punish the bad play. I don't personally like it, but you'll find those guys. You'll find guys who will ALWAYS call a banger an out. And you'll find a small minority of guys who will always call a banger safe. MOST of the time, however, to the perception of the umpire, one came before the other - you don't have time to think, "Was that a tie?"

And you'll never find an umpire who says he called a player out because it was a tie (or vice versa). We never "see" a tie.

[Uncle George]

There is no such thing as a tie in baseball. The Batter-runner is either out or safe! Plus, it's a judgement call and we all know that judgement calls can't be argued! Right!

[Tim C]

I have refrained so far -- but I cannot help myself . . .

++++++++++++++++

It doesn't matter if the two actions happen exactly at the same time.

"Why" you may ask?, simple:

The NBA and NTSB both did independent studies that show the exact same outcome:

The human mind cannot tell what happens as soon as two actions occurr within .04 of a second of each other.

Both studies showed that no matter what happens the human brain cannot define the order of happenings when they happen so close together.

I would contend that an umpire simply will make the call based on what "appeared" to have happened.

While there are no "ties" (when dealing with safe/out), we wouldn't know it if it happened.

Regards,

[johnnyg08]

There's nothing more you're going to hear from MLB about this one...in fact I'd be surprised if they'd even take the time to answer a question like that. There are no ties...only for the Saab driving mom in the stands.

[pob14]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

There's nothing more you're going to hear from MLB about this one...in fact I'd be surprised if they'd even take the time to answer a question like that.

Actually, they did. From MLB.com's Ask The Umpire website:

I am an umpire for Little League. The coach told me that ties go to the runner. I said the batter has to beat the throw to first because there are no such thing as ties. Who is right?
-- L.M.F.
[Tim] McClelland: That is exactly right. There are no ties and there is no rule that says the tie goes to the runner. But the rule book does say that the runner must beat the ball to first base, and so if he doesn't beat the ball, then he is out. So you have to make the decision. That's why umpires are paid the money they are, to make the decision on if he did or if he didn't. The only thing you can do is go by whether or not he beat the ball. If he did, then he is safe.

So there it is, from MLB. No ties.

[SanDiegoSteve]

...MAN LAW!