Run Score?

[RonRef]

Runners on second and third and one out, batter hits a ball to the gap and both runners on the move. The left fielder makes a great diving catch, the runner from third has already crossed the plate and the runner from second is well beyond third. The LF throws the ball into second base to double off the runner from second for the third out, does the runner from third score???

[Rich Ives]

Yes, unless the defense appeals the leaving early.

[mcrowder]

Yes, the run scores ... so far.

The defense would still be allowed to appeal the runner leaving early from 3rd, even though they have already gotten 3 outs. But if the defense simply leaves the field after getting the runner at 2nd, then yes - the run scores.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

This is a screwy one.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

This is a screwy one.

Not really. Pretty basic 4th out stuff.

Does the "13" in your handle refer to your umpire number, a LL designation of some sort, the level of ball you work, your age or none of the above?

[mcrowder]

I always thought this guy was Dan Marino.

It all fits - PA, 13, Dan, etc...

[SanDiegoSteve]

If I didn't already know his last name, I would think Garth was Garth Brooks.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Not really. Pretty basic 4th out stuff.

Does the "13" in your handle refer to your umpire number, a LL designation of some sort, the level of ball you work, your age or none of the above?

PA LL District 13 < District 13 Umpire. Although with the younger kids 9-10; some 11-12 i umpire; i can see something like this happening. But This was one that i do not know a ruling on. But after thinking about it i come up with the exact same thing as the other guys did.

[Bainer]

I'm not sure that this was a fourth out question.
I had a very similar play on the weekend and the plate ump made a knee-jerk call- and got it wrong- even though we all tried to correct him.

Our problem, and the one I see in this question is- with two outs, we've got a timing play, and the run counts before the out- but our plate ump (and maybe this one too) was unsure as to whether the 3rd out- the throw to get the runner who failed to tag up- was a force or not.

Ours was a throw back to 1st behind a runner on the move, with r3 tagging up and scoring just before the throw beat the runner back to first.


Bainer.

[lawump]

A runner declared out for leaving a base too early (not properly "tagging up")as a result of: a throw being made to the runner's time-of-pitch base and a fielder tagging the runner's time-of-pitch base with secure possession of the ball, is not a force out, even if the runner is sprinting like the wind trying to get back to his time-of-pitch base before the ball...it is an appeal play. It looks and acts like a force out, but it is not.

Hence, it is a timing play to determine whether R3 scores or not.

However, R3 (or any other runner), if he too left early, can still be "put out" for said violation as a result of a proper appeal resulting in an "advantageous fourth out."

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by lawump

However, R3 (or any other runner), if he too left early, can still be "put out" for said violation as a result of a proper appeal resulting in an "advantageous fourth out."

...or 5th, or 6th, or 7th...

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Not really. Pretty basic 4th out stuff.

Yessir. Of course, in real life, the defense would leave the field after the first appeal, and their skip would have an aneurysm when the run goes into the book.

Ace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by lawump

A runner declared out for leaving a base too early (not properly "tagging up")as a result of: a throw being made to the runner's time-of-pitch base and a fielder tagging the runner's time-of-pitch base with secure possession of the ball, is not a force out, even if the runner is sprinting like the wind trying to get back to his time-of-pitch base before the ball...it is an appeal play. It looks and acts like a force out, but it is not.

Note that an "appeal play" can result in a "force out" -- even though this particular play doesn't.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Bainer

I'm not sure that this was a fourth out question.
I had a very similar play on the weekend and the plate ump made a knee-jerk call- and got it wrong- even though we all tried to correct him.

Our problem, and the one I see in this question is- with two outs, we've got a timing play, and the run counts before the out- but our plate ump (and maybe this one too) was unsure as to whether the 3rd out- the throw to get the runner who failed to tag up- was a force or not.

Ours was a throw back to 1st behind a runner on the move, with r3 tagging up and scoring just before the throw beat the runner back to first.


Bainer.

Bainer, in yours the run scores.

In the OP, the reason this IS a 4th out sitch is that after the 3rd, the run does score, but the defense still retains the ability to get the SCORING runner out for leaving early, thus nullifying his run (with a "4th" out).

[Bainer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Bainer, in yours the run scores.

In the OP, the reason this IS a 4th out sitch is that after the 3rd, the run does score, but the defense still retains the ability to get the SCORING runner out for leaving early, thus nullifying his run (with a "4th" out).

Absolutely- I agree. I was just amazed by the similarity of my play and the one in question.

Bainer.