Batter out of box

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What if he was bunting for a base hit, was safe at first, but had been obviously completely out of the box with his entire foot on the plate, or worse yet, in the opposite batter's box. You saw it, the defensive manager saw it, the catcher saw it, everyone there saw it.

You are not going to call it?

Steve:

The problem here is you are speaking hypothetically..."what if". Tim is speaking factually...he won't see it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Steve:

The problem here is you are speaking hypothetically..."what if". Tim is speaking factually...he won't see it.

And neither would I.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

It's a rule, an especially at the level i do, the coaches are nothing but winey babies. The coach would have a point to make if i wasnt calling it; and it was clear he was way out of the box. Gotta call it i guess

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

It's a rule, an especially at the level i do, the coaches are nothing but winey babies. The coach would have a point to make if i wasnt calling it; and it was clear he was way out of the box. Gotta call it i guess

"I've got more important things to look for, like the pitch. Go back to the dugout."

You let whiny coaches tell you how to officiate?

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

"I've got more important things to look for, like the pitch. Go back to the dugout."

You let whiny coaches tell you how to officiate?

No i dont let them. I just try to keep the game fair, and play by the rules. But I dont know how you guys stand behind the plate, but i can see the pitch and the batters feet too.

[mcrowder]

Somewhere over 1500 games - 0 calls of this kind for me as well.

For those of you that seem to think this is some kind of flaw in an umpire that he's not calling this, let me ask you two questions:

1) at the moment that you see the foot contacting the ground outside the box, where is the pitch? I cannot believe any peripheral vision nonsense, as this is about 45 degrees apart, and one or the other would be in your extreme peripheral vision unless you were actually looking at NEITHER the ball or the foot. Isn't it more important for you to know where the pitch is than the foot?

2) Truly, except for some extremely bizarre circumstance (I don't know, say a slap hitter taking 4 steps toward the pitcher before hitting it), is there any advantage gained by the batter's foot being marginally outside that box?

Note that I am not saying we should intentionally ignore a rule - what I'm saying is that A) it's impossible to do your duties and also see this violation, and B) if you're going to miss one or the other, isn't it better to miss the one for which there is no advantage gained?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

But I dont know how you guys stand behind the plate, but i can see the pitch and the batters feet too.

At the moment contact is made between ball and bat, the only moment that counts for being out of the batter's box, your full focus is, or should be, solely on the pitch. Saying that you can tell, peripherally, at the exact same time, that the foot is both out of the box and grounded is either incorrect or an indication that you are not performing your primary duty at that time to your fullest potential.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by GarthB

At the moment contact is made between ball and bat, the only moment that counts for being out of the batter's box, your full focus is, or should be, solely on the pitch. Saying that you can tell, peripherally, at the exact same time, that the foot is both out of the box and grounded is either incorrect or an indication that you are not performing your primary duty at that time to your fullest potential.

To add to Garth's advice, in other words, maybe it's one of the reasons you were calling strikes on balls that hit the plate in that other thread.

[UmpJM]

I've been following this thread of discussion, and I've got a question.

Having (re)read J/R and JEA on the question, this strikes me as a legitimate rule which can, in certain situations, have a material impact on the "balance of the game" between offense and defense. Namely, during an IBB, a pitch-out with runners attempting to advance, or a batter (especially LH) attempting to drag bunt for a basehit. So, I'm suggesting that this rule means what it says, and, at least in some situations, really should be called, especially if the violation is "blatant" rather than "borderline".

Now, a number of the distinguished umpires have suggested that they simply would not be able to see this happen, because they are focused on calling the pitch. OK, let's just "buy that" for the time being.

What about if you're a BU in a two-man crew? Wouldn't seem that hard to see if it were blatant and occurred in one of the three situations I mentioned.

What say you?

JM

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

What about if you're a BU in a two-man crew? Wouldn't seem that hard to see if it were blatant and occurred in one of the three situations I mentioned.

What say you?

JM

As a coach who could be on either side of this call, do you really want me, from 105' away, to exercise my opinion if a foot is grounded at the time of a hit when I am concentrating on the swing and the ball? Really?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No i dont let them. I just try to keep the game fair, and play by the rules.

All of them? Exactly as worded?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No i dont let them. I just try to keep the game fair, and play by the rules. But I dont know how you guys stand behind the plate, but i can see the pitch and the batters feet too.

Not if you're tracking the pitch into the glove using only your eyes. Sorry, but you're either (1) wrong, or (2) not tracking the pitch correctly.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Not if you're tracking the pitch into the glove using only your eyes. Sorry, but you're either (1) wrong, or (2) not tracking the pitch correctly.

When the pitch is coming in, i can see the batters feet out the corner of my eye; from the slot stance

[David B]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No i dont let them. I just try to keep the game fair, and play by the rules. But I dont know how you guys stand behind the plate, but i can see the pitch and the batters feet too.

That sounds good in theory; however, in reality that is simply not possible. The only time I find myself looking at a batters feet is between pitches when a coach has been yelling "he's out of the box".

So between pitches I look at his feet and "he's in the box".

Another reality, especially if you stil do small ball, F2 blocks the umpire most of the time so you have enough problems just finding the ball much less looking at the pitch, looking down at a batters foot and then back for a pitch.

I was PU in a HS playoff game last season when a batter was called for being out of the box, but it was the BU who made the call.

Batter was trying to protect a runner by doing a drag bunt. I couldn't even see the pitch because batter was between myself and the pitcher etc. but once he laid the bunt down, BU called him out.

Probably a very good call, but there is no way I as PU could make that judgement.

Thanks
David

[Tim C]

Steve:

I don't know how to make it this any more clear.

If I am tracking a pitch correctly there is no way I am looking down at the plate area to see where a foot is at the precise time the ball is contacted.

I cannot do those two things at the same instant.

THEREFORE, as a matter of fact:

I have never looked down to see the placement of a batter's foot (feet) when bunting.

I do not have enough information to make a call I have never seen.

Regards,