Batter out of box

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Steve:

I don't know how to make it this any more clear.

If I am tracking a pitch correctly there is no way I am looking down at the plate area to see where a foot is at the precise time the ball is contacted.

I cannot do those two things at the same instant.

THEREFORE, as a matter of fact:

I have never looked down to see the placement of a batter's foot (feet) when bunting.

I do not have enough information to make a call I have never seen.

Regards,

I'm sorry. I don't understand. The batter squares around before the pitcher is finished winding up, he hasn't released the ball, and the batter has his foot all over the plate, way outside the box, and you don't see it? Or is it that you just don't choose to see it?

My strike zone's east and west borders are determined by their approximate location in relation to the outer edges of the 17 inch whitened 5-sided slab of rubber known as home plate. Part of my vision sees this plate on every pitch, and if there is a person standing on it, I'm going to see it.

Garth, this is not a "hypothetical question." This actually happens once in a blue moon. I wanted an answer to the question, "If you did see it, would you call it?" I didn't want an answer to "If you didn't see it?"

[mcrowder]

Steve, who cares where his feet are BEFORE he hits the ball - it's irrelevant. All that matters is where his feet are WHEN he hits the ball, and at that point you're tracking the pitch, not the feet.

You are missing the point on Tim too. You ask him to answer an impossible hypothetical, since he WILL NOT SEE IT - he's not looking down. Neither am I. Might as well ask us what we would call if we were standing at third base (as PU) when the pitch came in. It's an unanswerable hypothetical because it will never happen. It will happen as often as your hypothetical will though. Never.

If you're asking to probe for a hypothetical that he or I might conceive of calling this on, I can think of one... but it's TWP. Say your batter steps so far out in front that I actually lose sight of the pitch because the batter is actually in the way, and then he hits it, in front of his body. I suppose in that absurd case, I would have no pitch to track, and hearing the ball hit bat when he's standing ACROSS my plate, I suppose I would look down and see his foot on the ground and out of the box. However, it should be noted that if he merely lifts his foot at the right moment, even if standing across the plate, he's not out.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Steve, who cares where his feet are BEFORE he hits the ball - it's irrelevant. All that matters is where his feet are WHEN he hits the ball, and at that point you're tracking the pitch, not the feet.

You are missing the point on Tim too. You ask him to answer an impossible hypothetical, since he WILL NOT SEE IT - he's not looking down. Neither am I. Might as well ask us what we would call if we were standing at third base (as PU) when the pitch came in. It's an unanswerable hypothetical because it will never happen. It will happen as often as your hypothetical will though. Never.

If you're asking to probe for a hypothetical that he or I might conceive of calling this on, I can think of one... but it's TWP. Say your batter steps so far out in front that I actually lose sight of the pitch because the batter is actually in the way, and then he hits it, in front of his body. I suppose in that absurd case, I would have no pitch to track, and hearing the ball hit bat when he's standing ACROSS my plate, I suppose I would look down and see his foot on the ground and out of the box. However, it should be noted that if he merely lifts his foot at the right moment, even if standing across the plate, he's not out.

It is relevant if he does not move his foot and contacts the ball. It may seem Third World, but it has happened, and in a HS game, too, not kiddie ball. Standing on home plate, way outside the box, and bunted the ball. I called him out, and got no flack about the call whatsoever.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Garth, this is not a "hypothetical question." This actually happens once in a blue moon. I wanted an answer to the question, "If you did see it, would you call it?" I didn't want an answer to "If you didn't see it?"

Steve, this is, indeed, a hypothetical question. First hint: use of the word "if." Second hint: it is a conditional or contingent statement. The questioned is based on the condition or contingency of "If you did see it..."

This reminds me of a student I had a few years ago. During a debate, he said, "I don't answer hypothetical questions." I then asked, "Do you mean that if I were to ask you a hypothetical question, you wouldn't answer?"

He replied, "That's right, I wouldn't", completely ignorant of the fact that he just did.

[RPatrino]

I have only been asked to call a batter out for contacting the ball while outside the batter's box twice.

Once, as PU, defensive coach poops his pants on a bunt attempt, screaming "he's out of the box, blue!!". I turn to him, take off my mask, and giving him my best, " you are a dumba** look", I remark, "Coach, the lines are gone, would you like to redraw them for me?" His answer, " Would you call it if I did?", I retorted, "NO".

Second time, as BU in A. Fouled off bunt attempt, partner comes to me for "help". "Was he out of the box?" " I respond, "yes, he went". 1st base coach nearly falls down laughing. Partner responds, "NO, was he out of the batter's box?" I respond, " Probably not" as I turn and trot back to A.

After the game I emphasize to my partner that I am about 105 feet away from that play, and there is NO WAY I could make a call.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I'm sorry. I don't understand. The batter squares around before the pitcher is finished winding up, he hasn't released the ball, and the batter has his foot all over the plate, way outside the box, and you don't see it? Or is it that you just don't choose to see it?

My strike zone's east and west borders are determined by their approximate location in relation to the outer edges of the 17 inch whitened 5-sided slab of rubber known as home plate. Part of my vision sees this plate on every pitch, and if there is a person standing on it, I'm going to see it.

Garth, this is not a "hypothetical question." This actually happens once in a blue moon. I wanted an answer to the question, "If you did see it, would you call it?" I didn't want an answer to "If you didn't see it?"

I have games where I pray for it

I have a very good zone, so I am told. I Have called this quite a few times. It is usually foot touching the plate but I have seen guys step away from the plate clearly out of the box. How could you not see it and why would you not call it? Once there is a crack or ping, if the guy is out of the box, I am going to see it and not because I am looking for it but, because it is easy to see.

Joe

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have games where I pray for it

I Have called this quite a few times. It is usually foot touching the plate...

When the foot was touching the plate, where was the heel? And, as someone else asked more on point, where was the pitch? If you were looking at the foot, you weren't looking at the pitch.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

When the foot was touching the plate, where was the heel? And, as someone else asked more on point, where was the pitch? If you were looking at the foot, you weren't looking at the pitch.

There is a perception here that we can't do 2 things at once. Wrong, especially when the two things are mental.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

When the foot was touching the plate, where was the heel? And, as someone else asked more on point, where was the pitch? If you were looking at the foot, you weren't looking at the pitch.

This is why, in every post, I made sure I said that the foot was entirely out of the box, or completely on the plate. I'm sure Joe knows the difference. And it is not at all hard to look down, the instant the ball contacts the bat, and see the location of the foot.

Once again, you guys equate umpiring with rocket science, and make it seem much harder than it actually is. I often tell people that they underestimate how difficult umpiring is, because they do. But some umpires overstate the difficulty.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I'm sorry. I don't understand. The batter squares around before the pitcher is finished winding up, he hasn't released the ball, and the batter has his foot all over the plate, way outside the box, and you don't see it? Or is it that you just don't choose to see it?

My strike zone's east and west borders are determined by their approximate location in relation to the outer edges of the 17 inch whitened 5-sided slab of rubber known as home plate. Part of my vision sees this plate on every pitch, and if there is a person standing on it, I'm going to see it.

Garth, this is not a "hypothetical question." This actually happens once in a blue moon. I wanted an answer to the question, "If you did see it, would you call it?" I didn't want an answer to "If you didn't see it?"

It's not where his foot is when it's pitched. Are you looking at his foot the second the ball is batted. If so, how the heck are you tracking the pitch all the way to F2's glove?

[SanDiegoSteve]

No, Rich, and that's not what I'm getting at. If the batter is standing on the plate when he hits the ball, and his feet are nowhere near the batter's box then he's out of the box. I'm not saying to go out of the way to see it, only when it is blatant and obvious.

Nobody I know goes out of their way to look for something like this, but if an elephant lands on you, you know it.