Double Header Insomnia

[TussAgee11]

Here's what I had today...

Noon and after double header. 16 AAU. Team from Philly up here to CT to play a team from the area. We get to the field at noon, and the field is unplayable (big storm last night).

They are working on it some, but don't really have the resources neccessary to get it better (other than the sun, which was their best friend). We come back at 12:15 and the field is no better, they tell us that they will work hard on it, they really want to play since this team is from so far away. Partner and I decide that we will come back to the field at 1:00, final decision.

We get back, and the field is still unplayable, but the teams are playing a pick-up game with the coaches umpiring. We approach the home coach, and say "Whats the deal coach", and he says that they are just playing a pickup game. We say that the field is still unplayable, and that we will be leaving now, and not back for the "second game". It was clear they made little attempt to get the field playable, at least to our standards.

The Philly coach is pretty upset, seems really upset with our percieved "laziness" . The home coach asks if we can stick around for the start of the 2nd game, and we will recieve 2 games pay, as opposed to the one we were getting if we walked off right away. Not knowing how to reply, I informed him that we would go call our assignor, and whatever he wanted we would do.

We didn't get a hold of him, so we decided to go back down to the field and inform the coaches we were leaving, collected 1 game fee each, and left.

So my question is, did I wait around too long? Not long enough? My partner made the point that we can't set precedent by waiting all day as a favor, because the next ump that comes to do one of their games may not feel the same way. Thoughts? Did I do ok?

[Dave Hensley]

If you were scheduled to do two games, and only the first game was canceled but there appeared to be a shot at getting the second game in, I don't understand why you bolted before the scheduled start time of the 2nd game.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

If you were scheduled to do two games, and only the first game was canceled but there appeared to be a shot at getting the second game in, I don't understand why you bolted before the scheduled start time of the 2nd game.

I can understand. The umpires were there to do a double header, not to waste their day there. The teams are playing on the field rather than getting the field in shape. It's obvious that they don't care enough to make the field right for play, so why waste in entire day hanging around while they play a pickup game? The umpires will still not agree to the field and then the teams will argue that they just played a game there.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I can understand. The umpires were there to do a double header, not to waste their day there. The teams are playing on the field rather than getting the field in shape. It's obvious that they don't care enough to make the field right for play, so why waste in entire day hanging around while they play a pickup game? The umpires will still not agree to the field and then the teams will argue that they just played a game there.

They were offered the 2nd game fee if they would just stay until the scheduled start time of the second game on the chance it could be played. He said the "sun was their best friend" so maybe the field was drying. They were assigned to do two games.

In my association, we don't even get a rainout fee, and I can guarantee you we would be expected to be there for the start of the second game, instead of deciding *ourselves* ahead of time that the field was not going to be playable.

Two game fees for hanging around in the vicinity of a ball field sounds like more than a breakeven day to me; certainly nowhere near a "waste of time."

[TussAgee11]

Dave - I thought about doing this, but the scheduled start time for the second game was simply "after" the first.

To boot, the Philly coach was a real prick about it (said he didn't want to play late because of traffic, so lets start now, with mud and puddles, what's more important, your gas milage or your player's safety...)

[Rcichon]

Jeeze man you missed a GOLDEN opportunity:

Tell the Coaches you'll be staying for game 2. Position yourselves in the dugout area, one on each side.

Now call the game like they would. Act like the rats we know they are.

The possibilities are fun to think about, no?



PS: I'd have stayed just for the fee.

[Cub42]

First of all, you said there was a bad storm the night before. Your assignor could have called the home coach by 10 am to check on the field conditions. Next, who cares what the coach from PHL wants to do. If the field is not safe, you do not play. You and your partner, before you dress, should inspect the field. Remember, these are 16 yr old boys, and more than likely these coaches only care about winning. It sounds as if there was no grounds crew or field dry to work with it. But, when you came back to the field, and these numbskulls were out on it, you immediately collect your game fee and leave. If they had any chance of playing, they ended it there.
Finally, do not worry what coaches think. You are in charge, not them.By allowing there players to go on the field, they basically showed you guys they could care less what you said to them. I am not trying to chastice you, I don't know how long you have been in this, but a lot of the Amateur guys I worked with coming up, always felt like they should try and appease the coaches. Forget that. Safety is first, and remember, the rats will always come out when they smell the cheese.
Kurt Branin

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Cub42

First of all, you said there was a bad storm the night before. Your assignor could have called the home coach by 10 am to check on the field conditions.

Wow, you have an assignor that would call a coach to find out if the field was ready? Never heard of such a thing. Out here, it's the coach's job to notify the assignor. If not, and the umpires arrive to a field that is unplayable, the umpires get paid and jet.

Only in HS ball do the umpires need to call the school to see if they're playing a game during times of inclement weather. Even then, the assignor isn't responsible for calling, the game officials are.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Rcichon

PS: I'd have stayed just for the fee.

Yup. Dire Straits said it best....

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=Cub42]First of all, you said there was a bad storm the night before. Your assignor could have called the home coach by 10 am to check on the field conditions.

The aforementioned is NOT the job of the assignor.

In my association, it is up to the manager of the team to call the assignor if a game is cancelled or moved to a different site. In our contract, the manager has up until 2 hours before game time to make the determination. RE: The assignor needs that time to get in touch with the umpires doing the game if it is cancelled or moved. Most of us if we travel to a game leave approx 45 minutes to an hour before time to make sure we get to the game site on time.

The answer to the thread IMO lies in the type of contract one's association has with it's clients. In ours if the field is unplayable, we take our Game FEE and go home. IMO, hanging around will only cause problems.

Also, depending upon one's association, there might be another crew doing the second game, therefore, if the field isn't ready for game 1 take you FEE and the next crew will determine if the field is playable for game 2.

We do not get paid to negotiate.


Pete Booth

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

They were offered the 2nd game fee if they would just stay until the scheduled start time of the second game on the chance it could be played. He said the "sun was their best friend" so maybe the field was drying. They were assigned to do two games.

In my association, we don't even get a rainout fee, and I can guarantee you we would be expected to be there for the start of the second game, instead of deciding *ourselves* ahead of time that the field was not going to be playable.

Two game fees for hanging around in the vicinity of a ball field sounds like more than a breakeven day to me; certainly nowhere near a "waste of time."

Dave,

In my world they CAN'T play a second game of a DH unless they play the first. Do your second games actually have times attached to them? Ours start 20 minutes after the completion of the first game. And the umpires are in charge of the weather for the second game of a DH.

I don't blame the OP. I assign a 44-team league and if a game time is changed (like the OP's), I don't require the umpires to stay and work. Their game is at 1PM, not 2PM.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Dave,

Do your second games actually have times attached to them? Ours start 20 minutes after the completion of the first game.

Can't speak for Dave, but our DH's have start times assigned to both games. (HS, Legion and Adult...not college games) They are ususally 2 1/2 hours apart....12:00 and 2:30 on Sundays.

Of course we are flexible with those times. If we are in extra innings of the first game, we don't call it because the second one needs to start.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Can't speak for Dave, but our DH's have start times assigned to both games. (HS, Legion and Adult...not college games) They are ususally 2 1/2 hours apart....12:00 and 2:30 on Sundays.

Of course we are flexible with those times. If we are in extra innings of the first game, we don't call it because the second one needs to start.

Ours do too, but only because the Arbiter requires a start time.

I would never, NEVER require an umpire to sit at a park longer than an hour, regardless of whether the teams were working the field. Umpires have lives, too, and if the teams can't get it ready in less than an hour, I won't penalize guys for leaving the park. If they want to stay, fine, but it's the umpires's call and I make that fact well known. Most of our games are on Sunday afternoons and I don't begrudge the umpires making dinner plans with family.

[TussAgee11]

Rich - its good to hear that you got the umpire's backs.

I was very pleased when my assignor stood up for me when one of the coaches called him after the game, complaining. He even lied a bit for me, saying they were kind enough to stay an hour, they didn't even need to do that (if I had left right away, assignor may have been upset).

I hope you don't tell the coaches that "umpires can stay if they want to". Cause when its my time to leave, I don't want to hear "the last guy did it". Nor do I want to stay, because the next guy that does there games might want to leave.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Dave,

In my world they CAN'T play a second game of a DH unless they play the first. Do your second games actually have times attached to them? Ours start 20 minutes after the completion of the first game. And the umpires are in charge of the weather for the second game of a DH.

I don't blame the OP. I assign a 44-team league and if a game time is changed (like the OP's), I don't require the umpires to stay and work. Their game is at 1PM, not 2PM.

As you know I work a variety of leagues, but yes, typically doubleheaders have start times for both games. The second game hardly ever gets going on time, because they usually schedule them two hours apart with a 1:50 time limit (no new inning) on the first game. But thinking back over this season, I can remember two different double header scenarios where one team played two different teams, and then a couple of high school double headers where I had an early JV game, and then the following varsity game.

I make the assumption that the umpires are motivated by pay, and in the original situation they were offered a full second game fee if they would only stay to see if the 2nd game could be played. Seems like easy money to me at best, fulfilling your contractual obligation at worst.