Coach's Interference?

[Armadillo_Blue]

R2. B1 drives a ball into the outfield. R2 rounds third as the ball is on its way into home, clearly well in front of the runner. The third base coach, out of the box (if that matters to anyone), raises both hands in a stop signal, and steps directly in front of R2's path. R2 slams on the breaks and stops just before colliding with the coach and then trots back to 3rd. It is obvious that the only reason R2 stopped was because he had to to avoid the collision, however there is no actual contact.

Does this constitute physcially assisting the runner in returning to the base, and is thus an out, or is it nothing becuase the runner managed to stop in time?

[LLPA13UmpDan]

No it doesnt. I know by LL rules they have to make contact in order for interference (and runner being called out). I wouldnt rule it interference, but i would ask the coach to stay in the box, where he belongs. And you kinda answered your own question. "Physically Assisting" was contact made? No.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No it doesnt. I know by LL rules they have to make contact in order for interference (and runner being called out). I wouldnt rule it interference, but i would ask the coach to stay in the box, where he belongs. And you kinda answered your own question. "Physically Assisting" was contact made? No.

Well, not only would contact need to be made, but that contact would have to actually physically assist the runner in returning to have interference. If the runner just runs into the coach, and knocks the coach down, or they both go down, there is no "assistance" given, and no interference called.

If the coach were to actually push the runner towards the base, or grab him and pull him towards the base, then it is interference. Mere contact alone does not qualify as interference.

You also cannot tell the coach to stay in the box when a play is going on, and a runner is rounding 3rd. Coaches are allowed to leave the box to signal to the base runners. Even before a pitch, the coaches are traditionally allowed to be slightly outside the lines of the coaching boxes, unless the other manager complains, then the base coaches from both teams must stay inside the boxes. But the umpire does not go out of his way to enforce this without prior complaint from either team.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Steve, read 4.05 (3) LL rules And on the coaches interference, If the contact is intentional i believe the runner can be called out. I've seen runners called out for making contact w/ the coach while running. I'll look it up to be double sure.

[SanDiegoSteve]

You mentioned LL rules, not the original poster who asked the question. Why would you assume the umpires at this board are comprised of mostly Little League umpires? I speak in terms of OBR rules unless otherwise stated.

Take a look in the Official Baseball Rules book for the proper answer to the question. Rule 4.05 does not have a (3). It has an (a) and a (b). It also has casebook comments following which state exactly what I was saying (emphasis added):

Rule 4.05 Comment: It has been common practice for many years for some coaches to put one foot outside the coach’s box or stand astride or otherwise be slightly outside the coaching box lines. The coach shall not be considered out of the box unless the opposing manager complains, and then, the umpire shall strictly enforce the rule and require all coaches (on both teams) to remain in the coach’s box at all times.

It is also common practice for a coach who has a play at his base to leave the coach’s box to signal the player to slide, advance or return to a base. This may be allowed if the coach does not interfere with the play in any manner.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Sorry Steve, but im kinda like u, instead...i assume LL unless otherwise stated Oops.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Steve, read 4.05 (3) LL rules And on the coaches interference, If the contact is intentional i believe the runner can be called out. I've seen runners called out for making contact w/ the coach while running. I'll look it up to be double sure.

You may have seen runners called out for simply making contact, but what you saw was the umpire kicking the call. If the coach is trying to stop a runner by physically holding him or grabbing him or tackling him, is different than just getting plowed into by an out of control runner.

The umpire has to have good enough judgment to tell the difference between a train wreck (legal) and actually rendering assistance to the baserunner (illegal).

Unless the starter of the thread or topic specifically mentions LL rules, or FED rules, or NCAA rules, it is safe to assume we are discussing pro rules, commonly known as OBR. Feel free to ask questions, but when providing answers, make sure you are using the right rule book first.

[Armadillo_Blue]

I'm sorry, I should have specified OBR.

Steve, In a sitch like this, don't you feel that the contact, if made, would contstitute a physical assist. We are talking about a coach deliberately placing himself in front of the runner to stop the runner. This would not be a train wreck or an accident, this would be deliberate contact designed to stop the runner from advancing and force them to return to third.

"It is also common practice for a coach who has a play at his base to leave the coach’s box to signal the player to slide, advance or return to a base. This may be allowed if the coach does not interfere with the play in any manner."

I guess to me the coach was interfering with the play in some manner. He moved in front of the runner.

Dan, One could argue that his moving to block the base bath was a physical act vs. a verbal act. Therefore he was physically assisting without actually touching.

My question should have been, Is there any official interp or AO or case play that defines physically assist as requiring contact, or does the physical act of deliberately blocking the runners path so that it is physically impossible for them to proceed qualify as physically assisting?

I can see both sides of the argument, but didn't know what info was out there that I just don't have or know about.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Sorry Steve, but im kinda like u, instead...i assume LL unless otherwise stated Oops.

Assuming Little League rules on this board is a bad habit you should break ASAP. However, Little League rules are derived from the OBR, and approximately 95% of the time, the LL inteprretation of a particular rule is parallel with, if not actually verbatim, the corresponding OBR interpretation.

Just like with the OBR, though, you have to dig a little deeper than merely your Woody Woodchuck manual. The Instructor Comments for rule 4.05 in the Little League Rules Instruction Manual says:

It is common practice for a coach who has a play at his/her base to leave the coach’s box to signal the player to slide, advance or return to a base. This may be allowed if the coach does not interfere with the play in any manner.

Darn close to a verbatim copy of the OBR casebook comment Steve gave you.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue

I'm sorry, I should have specified OBR.

Steve, In a sitch like this, don't you feel that the contact, if made, would contstitute a physical assist. We are talking about a coach deliberately placing himself in front of the runner to stop the runner. This would not be a train wreck or an accident, this would be deliberate contact designed to stop the runner from advancing and force them to return to third.

I agree that Steve's conclusion of a train wreck is questionable. Here's a similar caseplay from Jim Evans' Baseball Rules Annotated:

Runner on 1st. The batter smacks a line drive base hit into the gap in left center. The runner flies around 2nd and is determined to score on the play. The3rd base coach is pointing for the runner to stop at 3rd. Seeing the runner is not going to stop, the coach gets in the runner's path home and is run over by his charging player. Both fall to the ground. The runner gets up and barely gets back to the base ahead of a tag. What's the call?

RULING: The coach's action should be considered physically assisting. He probably prevented his player from being thrown out at home. However, the runner is called out for his coach's actions. The B-R returns to the base
last touched at the time of the collision.

[mcrowder]

The question should not be "Was there contact?" (Although without contact, you have nothing). The question is, "Did the contact ASSIST the runner?" If so, out, if not, nothing. Note no mention of intent here. Did the contact have the effect of HELPING (Yes - out)? Did the contact have no effect on the runner or did the contact actually end up having the effect of HARMING the runner (Yes to either - nothing).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

I agree that Steve's conclusion of a train wreck is questionable. Here's a similar caseplay from Jim Evans' Baseball Rules Annotated:

Runner on 1st. The batter smacks a line drive base hit into the gap in left center. The runner flies around 2nd and is determined to score on the play. The3rd base coach is pointing for the runner to stop at 3rd. Seeing the runner is not going to stop, the coach gets in the runner's path home and is run over by his charging player. Both fall to the ground. The runner gets up and barely gets back to the base ahead of a tag. What's the call?

RULING: The coach's action should be considered physically assisting. He probably prevented his player from being thrown out at home. However, the runner is called out for his coach's actions. The B-R returns to the base
last touched at the time of the collision.

I agree that intentionally moving into the runner's path would constitute interference. I would have to judge that it really was intentional. If the coach looked like he was trying to get out of the way, and merely zigged when he should have zagged, I would be less inclined to call it. If on the other hand, the coach clearly stepped in the runner's path in order to stop his momentum, yeah, I've got me some interference.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue

Dan, One could argue that his moving to block the base bath was a physical act vs. a verbal act. Therefore he was physically assisting without actually touching.

I can see both sides of the argument, but didn't know what info was out there that I just don't have or know about.

Interesting, and I can see both sides too, I suppose. So here's this: What if the coach does the exact same thing, with a runner about to/in the process of rounding 3B wide - while still in the coach's box? A very wide turn/path will often take a runner through the home plate-most corner/end of the coach's box. Coach is still still intentionally getting in the base path, in your opinion. Or what if said coach completely lacks the ability to give verbal instructions? (I've had one.) I think I'd be tempted to say to complaining coach, "If you're not physically interfering with the play, coach, I'm going to allow you the same opportunity to coach your runners."

To take it a step further, it seems semantic, once you go beyond the requirement of physical assistance being derived from contact, to argue what does and doesn't constitute interfering with the play. Pointing to a base and putting a hand up is an act of physical assistance that can affect a play.

In my mind, it comes down to what a coach can and can't do outside the coach's box while the ball is in play in OBR. If signaling to a base runner is one of them, as is suggested by the following exerpt from Armadillo and SD Steve's posts above: "It is also common practice for a coach who has a play at his base to leave the coach’s box to signal the player to slide, advance or return to a base. This may be allowed if the coach does not interfere with the play in any manner," and since the case play supplied above involved actual contact with coach (and I'm guessing that every single case play would in cases of runner assistance, if dug up), I don't have a violation here.

[nickrego]

I am not going to say anything, in the exact situation you stated. Unless, the Defensive coach says something. Then, I would instruct ALL coaches to stay in their respective boxes.

If the runner had run into the coach, I would have called Coaches Interference, and called the runner out. In your scenario, I view the coaches action as a deliberate act to stop the runner, by physical means. That in my book is Assisting the Runner.

And...No where do I remember a rule that states a coach has to be assisting the runner BACK to a base for it to be Interference, as was stated in one of the responses. Coaches can also Assist a runner in making the turn to wards 2nd or Home, or picking them up off the ground to continue running if they fall.