Lost of Coach's Box

[Airborne!]

Hello Fellow Officials! Saturday night I had a HS varsity girls game and here's a situation: Player A1 commits a common personal foul (her 4th) and in her displeasure she uses some vulgar language towards Player B1 and the calling referee. Of course, a Tech was assessed during this "dead-ball" segment, but before the common foul was reported to the table. Once reported the table reports to the reporting referee it was her 5th foul now with the "T" and was properly reported to the coach at that point. The coach appropriately provided a sub and the disqualified player became bench personnel. This all occurred in the 1st half. We got together initially and determined that the coach should sit for the duration of the game. Half time we had further discussion on it and concluded that the coach should not be penalized and lose the "box" because the player had not become "bench personnel" at the time of the "T" due to being her 5th foul. Would appreciate any feedback whether or not this was proper in allowing the coach to resume coaching in his designated "box". Thanks!

[zebraman]

Read Case Play 4.14.1 Situation B. It covers your play.

The bottom line is that the player does not become bench personnel until you notify the coach so the coach does not lose the coaching box privileges in your case.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Airborne!
Hello Fellow Officials! Saturday night I had a HS varsity girls game and here's a situation: Player A1 commits a common personal foul (her 4th) and in her displeasure she uses some vulgar language towards Player B1 and the calling referee. Of course, a Tech was assessed during this "dead-ball" segment, but before the common foul was reported to the table. Once reported the table reports to the reporting referee it was her 5th foul now with the "T" and was properly reported to the coach at that point. The coach appropriately provided a sub and the disqualified player became bench personnel. This all occurred in the 1st half. We got together initially and determined that the coach should sit for the duration of the game. Half time we had further discussion on it and concluded that the coach should not be penalized and lose the "box" because the player had not become "bench personnel" at the time of the "T" due to being her 5th foul. Would appreciate any feedback whether or not this was proper in allowing the coach to resume coaching in his designated "box". Thanks!

If the T was her 5th foul, and not her 6th, and the sub was sent in because of the 5 fouls, then she wasn't bench personnel when the T was committed, so the coach doesn't lose the box.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by rainmaker
If the T was her 5th foul, and not her 6th, and the sub was sent in because of the 5 fouls, then she wasn't bench personnel when the T was committed, so the coach doesn't lose the box.

Juulie, that still doesn't matter. Even if the personal foul was the player's fifth foul and the T was her sixth, she still isn't bench personnel until the coach is notified that the player is DQ'd. That notification process can't very well take place until the table crew has alerted the game official that the player has committed the fifth foul. So in either case, the player was not bench personnel and the head coach isn't charged an indirect T.

Airborne, you and your partner originally goofed by sitting the coach, but did the right thing by correcting the situation and allowing him to have the coaching box for the second half. Be honest, admit your mistakes, and you will do just fine.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Juulie, that still doesn't matter. Even if the personal foul was the player's fifth foul and the T was her sixth, she still isn't bench personnel until the coach is notified that the player is DQ'd. That notification process can't very well take place until the table crew has alerted the game official that the player has committed the fifth foul. So in either case, the player was not bench personnel and the head coach isn't charged an indirect T.

Airborne, you and your partner originally goofed by sitting the coach, but did the right thing by correcting the situation and allowing him to have the coaching box for the second half. Be honest, admit your mistakes, and you will do just fine.

We're both right Nevada. I'm not saying that the notification didn't matter. I'm saying she wasn't bench personnel when she received the T, and that they shouldn't have "sat" the coach.

[Ref Daddy]

Ahh, not unlike the 4 point play (being fouled on a good three pointer). I bet getting 6 fouls doesn't happen very often.

[Junker]

I had a 4 point play last Thursday. The highlight of a crappy week of games. This week will be better though.

[Stat-Man]

Originally posted by Ref Daddy
Ahh, not unlike the 4 point play (being fouled on a good three pointer). I bet getting 6 fouls doesn't happen very often.

Had a summer tournament game played with a combination of NCAA/Pro rules where a guy picked up his 6th (disqualifying) foul followed by a direct T for his 7th foul.

something I hope to never see again.

[Texas Aggie]

I've had 2 4 point play attempts this year, but one I know of the kid didn't make the free throw. I don't remember what happened on the other one. I just remember the awkwardness of counting a basket on a foul, then signaling 3.