Mockery of the Game???

[bossman72]

Doing a game tonight, i was BU. It was getting late and the visiting team (who was batting) wanted to complete the extra inning before it got too dark. One batter comes to the plate and swings just as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand- obviously just swinging for a strike so he can be out and they can hurry up.

The next pitch he does the same thing and the PU calls time and says "You're making a mockery of the game by doing this and if you do it again, you're outta here." Brief argument from the O coach ensued but nothing major.


So, is the PU allowed to do this? If this happened in one of your games, how would you have handled it?

[UmpJM]

bossman,

I find 4.15(b) pertinent:

4.15
A game may be forfeited to the opposing team when a team --

...(b) Employs tactics palpably designed to delay or shorten the game;

What do you think?

JM

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

How is this any different than a coach who purposely delays a game when he sees a storm on the horizon and his home team is down by eight runs in the third? The magic sign machine in the third base coaching box now takes thirty seconds to deliver a take sign. Maybe he's on defense and he decides to switch pitchers again and again in the same effort.

Most of us recognize that the only travesty of the game rule concerns running the bases in reverse order. The umpire may have felt slighted but it is a strategy of one team, nothing less.

[UMP25]

Except that there is a difference between subtlety and obvious mockery, WWTB.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Doing a game tonight, i was BU. It was getting late and the visiting team (who was batting) wanted to complete the extra inning before it got too dark. One batter comes to the plate and swings just as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand- obviously just swinging for a strike so he can be out and they can hurry up.

The next pitch he does the same thing and the PU calls time and says "You're making a mockery of the game by doing this and if you do it again, you're outta here." Brief argument from the O coach ensued but nothing major.


So, is the PU allowed to do this? If this happened in one of your games, how would you have handled it?

I'm assuming these were younger kids, kids that shave( i like the new term)
would probably be more subtle.
They'd accomplish the same thing swinging at their toes when the ball was a bit closer and be just as obvious.
I'd have a hard time doing anything besides laughing.
Heck, we're always bragging about our quickest games and now one of us is telling the coach to slow it up.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Except that there is a difference between subtlety and obvious mockery, WWTB.

UMP25,

I find your point well taken.

And I did not mean to suggest that the umpire declare a forfeit the first time the batter swings at a pitch when it is obvious that he has no intention of actually hitting that pitch. However, after the second time, I do think it would be entirely appropriate for the umpire to give the offensive manager a "heads up" that he's skating on thin ice.

WWTB offers two examples: 1. a base coach giving unnecessarily prolonged signals, and 2. a manager repeatedly changing pitchers.

In #1, the umpire should instruct the batter to take his position in the batter's box. Should the batter fail to do so, the umpire should call a "directed strike". If, on the other hand, the umpire allows the base coach & batter to illegally delay the game, he's not a very good umpire and needs some remedial work on his game management skills.

#2 is a little trickier. The manager may have a legitimate reason to switch pitchers. Each pitcher he brings in, of course, must pitch to at least one batter or retire the side before he is replaced by another pitcher. Unless he becomes "incapacitated" before doing so. If the umpire "feels" (which is, more or less what "palpably" means) the manager is simply trying to delay the game to gain an unfair advantage which is obviously not intended by the rules by doing so, he should put a stop to it. Umpire judgement.

Surely you don't tolerate this kind of B.S. in the games you officiate, do you WWTB?

JM

[nickrego]

Take the strikes, take the outs, go home and relax.

Or better yet, post on this board and get your a$$ kicked.

[TussAgee11]

In the original sitch, wouldn't the visiting team, who was batting, want to DELAY the game, so darkness would fall without the home team getting to bat in their half of the inning? Or just whack the cover off of the ball and stay up at bat?

In my area, games start at 5:00 and are always over well before darkness, so I'm not sure of the rule of suspended play due to darkness; if it's any different then a weather suspension.

Seems to me like if the vistor's stayed up at bat, and it got too dark, and the game was official "ball game!".

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

WWTB offers two examples: 1. a base coach giving unnecessarily prolonged signals, and 2. a manager repeatedly changing pitchers.

In #1, the umpire should instruct the batter to take his position in the batter's box. Should the batter fail to do so, the umpire should call a "directed strike". If, on the other hand, the umpire allows the base coach & batter to illegally delay the game, he's not a very good umpire and needs some remedial work on his game management skills.

If the batter has a foot in the batters box and his hand up indicating that he is seeking signs from his coach, a good umpire will acquiesce. How long is too long? Even in Fed, umpires are taught to permit certain actions as long as they don't unduly delay the progress of the game. If the coach wants to give 15 seconds worth of signals and you prohibit it, you are an OOO and deserve what is coming. Now the game will be delayed by you confronting the coac, batter or worse. You've just played into his hand.

#2 is a little trickier. The manager may have a legitimate reason to switch pitchers. Each pitcher he brings in, of course, must pitch to at least one batter or retire the side before he is replaced by another pitcher. Unless he becomes "incapacitated" before doing so. If the umpire "feels" (which is, more or less what "palpably" means) the manager is simply trying to delay the game to gain an unfair advantage which is obviously not intended by the rules by doing so, he should put a stop to it. Umpire judgement.

What level are you discussing? I can't imagine that you haven't witnessed this happening. Coaches request "Time" and then slowly stroll out to talk to the pitcher, buying time for a few more relief warm ups. Then they get back to the dugout and wait for the batter to get set. They then request "Time" again and make another slow walk to change the pitcher. This guy takes his warm ups and then proceeds to throw three consecutive balls. The coach requests "Time" yet again and spends his minute consulting with the battery. Ball four comes and we have another pitching change. Yada, yada, yada...come on coach, this happens at all levels with players who shave. It is a tactical strategy that works wonders when the sun is setting or inclement weather is rolling in. Again, if you step up and say, "I know what you are doing coach and I'm not going to allow it." He's likely to say, "You must know Dionne Warwick and her psychic friends. I'm coaching the team and need to talk with my pitcher. The rules allow it, don't they?" Then you tell him to hurry up as the other team starts chirping. He replies that he has no intent to rush the time he is legally permitted to spend consulting with his club. Just as the huddle breaks, his pitcher calls to the coach that his arm is hurting and out trots the trainer. Now you have an injury time out and the coach is doing what he is supposed to do...prevent his team from losing. I could have sworn you undestood this.

Surely you don't tolerate this kind of B.S. in the games you officiate, do you WWTB?

I let the players decide the game, coach. I don't interject just to placate another team. I understand the strategy and subtelty of the game. If one team is taking advantage of every rule they can, there is little that an official can or should do. Maybe the coaches at lower levels are bullied by OOOs, but most of the ones I encounter are very familiar with rules. I don't allow a team to cheat but I certainly respect good strategy. If the shoe was on the other foot, the griping coach would be doing the same thing. We can absolutely encourage good sportsmanship and urge them to hustle, but if you insert yourself into the game the delay will now be caused by you.

JM[/QUOTE]

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

In the original sitch, wouldn't the visiting team, who was batting, want to DELAY the game, so darkness would fall without the home team getting to bat in their half of the inning? Or just whack the cover off of the ball and stay up at bat?

In my area, games start at 5:00 and are always over well before darkness, so I'm not sure of the rule of suspended play due to darkness; if it's any different then a weather suspension.

Seems to me like if the vistor's stayed up at bat, and it got too dark, and the game was official "ball game!".

If they had a big lead in the top of the 5th they would want to get the top half over with so the home team could bat before dark to make the game official.

[ozzy6900]

We've been through this before. What difference does it make when the batter swings? I've had blow out games where the winning team was swinging at pitches in the dirt just to get the inning over with. As long as that's all the team is doing and no one is mouthing off, let it go. When the cry-baby coach starts the water works, remind him that his team can do the same. Just don't let it go any farther than swinging for the strikes.

PS - The reference to the blow out games is because here in CT, the State FED board has no Mercy Rule for High School games because the Head Coaches vote it out every year at the State meetings.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=bossman72]Doing a game tonight, i was BU. It was getting late and the visiting team (who was batting) wanted to complete the extra inning before it got too dark. One batter comes to the plate and swings just as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand- obviously just swinging for a strike so he can be out and they can hurry up.

Your thread is typical when daylight is an issue.

You need to have game awareness. Are the teams hustling in between innings. Is it good calibur ball.

If the game is so/so and you have 6 completed innings and there is approx 15 -20 minutes of daylight left then I recommend you call the game at that point. Simply tell the coaches (who cares if they do not like it) that in your judgement it's too dark to finish the game.

More often than not, if you start the top of the seventh you will encounter more problems and hear more grief then if you called the game to begin with.

For the most part daylight becomes an issue when the game is not very good to begin with. In my experience, when you have two good teams that are well coached the daylight issue is moot unless the game goes into extra innings.

IMO, swinging at pitches not in the zone is not cause for a travesty and is not supported by rule.

The game can become a pharse and at that point should be stopped. By pharse I mean a player purposely off the bag so he can be tagged out or a player hitting a single and not running so that the outfielder has time to throw him out. Purpsosely abandoning the base path to be called out or allowing your teammate to pass you to get an out.

Once the game does not resemble a game anymore, then it's time to stop and simply let the league president handle it from that point on.

In Summary: Stop the game before it's get ugly or rediculous. As mentioned if the game is not good, players are not hustling on/off the field and you have a regulation game (6 full innings for example) with minimal daylight left call the game.

Pete Booth

[UmpJM]

WWTB,

Perhaps you'll find Jim Evans more persuasive:

Historical Notes: This rule first appeared in 1892 and stated that a game shall be forfeited at the request of the offended club, “...if a team resorts to dilatory practices in order to gain time for the purpose of having the game called on account of darkness or rain, or for any other reason whatsoever.”

In 1933, the rule still only provided forfeiture in the case of delaying or stalling tactics. By 1942 the rule also included the offense of using tactics to shorten the game.

Customs and Usage: As a general rule, umpires should warn the offending team's manager of tactics they consider efforts to delay or shorten the game. If these tactics continue after the warning, the game shall be forfeited.

Situations:
The game was started under threatening skies and light rain has been falling for the past two innings. The visiting team leads 4-0 in the top of the 4th inning. The home team allows a routine fly ball to the right fielder to fall in front of him. Once the runner reaches 1st safely, the pitcher continuously throws over to 1st when the runner is still standing on the base. The rains intensify and the pitcher uncorks a wild pitch. The runner advances
to 2nd. Again, the pitcher attempts several pick-offs while the runner is standing on second.

RULING: The umpire should warn the manager of the home team that his team's tactics, in the umpire's judgment, are designed to delay the game until rain causes a cancellation. And, if such tactics continue, the game will be forfeited to the visiting team.

The visitors trail 5-0 with the home team batting in the bottom of the 4th inning. The first batter swings and misses three obvious pitches out of the strike zone. The next batter hits a one-hopper directly to the right fielder who fields the ball cleanly. The batter-runner rounds first and charges into second where the second baseman is patiently waiting on him. He tags him out for the second out.

RULING: The umpire should warn the home team manager that his team's tactics, in the umpire's judgment, are designed to shorten the game. And, if such tactics continue, the game will be forfeited to the visiting team.

30 seconds for a coach to give signals?!?!?! 15 Seconds?!?!? YGTBSM! How long do your games last?

JM

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

PS - The reference to the blow out games is because here in CT, the State FED board has no Mercy Rule for High School games because the Head Coaches vote it out every year at the State meetings.

Unlike football, but that's a horse of an entire different color. Ozz, I had a blowout in a middle school game yesterday- do CT middle schools have a mercy rule?

[Bainer]

We had a situation a year-or-so ago that was handled similarly.
In the late innings of a game with a time curfew, the manager brought in a recently called up pitcher.
He and the catcher could not get on the same page and kept getting crossed up. The catcher must have gone out to talk to him four or five times to straighten things out. It was clear that they weren't intentionally delaying the game, but they were nonetheless.
The offensive team was frustrated, but not really vocal, as they were benefitting from the mixups.
The plate umpire took it upon himself to make a bit of a scene the next time the catcher tried to go out- leading the catcher out to the mound and ordering that he and the pitcher get their acts together and their signals straight NOW.
All this accomplished was blowing the situation out of proportion and drawing attention to it it could have been resolved in a better way.


Bainer.