Trave-mockery

[Cyber-Ref]

Boys 13-14 rec game. Team A clearly better than Team B. First half lead climbs to 20+ points and league rules force a running clock mercy attempt.

Second half, Team B flat out quits and applies token defense at best showing no interest to get back in the game. A-1 starts to showboat by excessive dribbling with no attempt to score. Crowd starts laughing, enjoying the comedy routine. We have a travesty-mockery a trave-mockery.

As much as I love the game and strive to contiuously improve my officiating, this sceene was tough to take. The action produced no fouls or violations and I don't know of any delay of game rules.

I wanted to call a time out and tell the coaches to get their teams to compete, but didn't know what would be appropriate to say.

The running clock ended the show but I was concerned that the hot-dogging would turn the game ugly (fortunately it didn't).

Has anyone experienced this, and how did you handle it.

[Mark Padgett]

I've never experienced this but there is an NF rule about making a mockery out of the game. I'm not sure it would apply for these types of actions, however.

[ChrisSportsFan]

you see it sometimes where team A has a BIG BIG lead and begins trying to throw alley-oops or will practice dunks on a break. We used to call it "clownin". Sometimes we did the clownin and sometimes we got clowned.

[Cyber-Ref]

Mark Padgett said:

I've never experienced this but there is an NF rule about making a mockery out of the game. I'm not sure it would apply for these types of actions, however.

If someone could cite this NF rule, I'd certainly use it next time.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by Cyber-Ref
Mark Padgett said:

I've never experienced this but there is an NF rule about making a mockery out of the game. I'm not sure it would apply for these types of actions, however.

If someone could cite this NF rule, I'd certainly use it next time.

5.4-1
It never uses the word "mockery", but here's the excerpt:

The referee may forfeit the game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with...*bunch of stuff*... or other acts which make a travesty of the game.

Good luck explaining why you thought you were justified in making this call. As long as the kids were still playing basketball, by the rules, however showy, is that really making a travesty of the game? I would classify this call as equivalent to calling a team T based on the conduct of fans.

[ChuckElias]

5-4-1

[Jurassic Referee]

Or.......you could call it "taunting" and "T" up the dribbler under R10-3-7(c)--"Commit an unsporting foul. This includes....baiting or taunting an opponent. NOTE:The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others...".

Forfeiting is an extreme penalty, and should be used only as a last resort. This sounds like it was applicable to your sitch. A warning followed by a "T" oughta smarten 'em up. Hopefully, anyway.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Or.......you could call it "taunting" and "T" up the dribbler under R10-3-7(c)--"Commit an unsporting foul. This includes....baiting or taunting an opponent. NOTE:The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others...".

Forfeiting is an extreme penalty, and should be used only as a last resort. This sounds like it was applicable to your sitch. A warning followed by a "T" oughta smarten 'em up. Hopefully, anyway.

I definitely like the taunting T as a better solution than considering a forfeit. You could definitely sell the showy play as a form of taunting. Good call.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by Cyber-Ref
...Has anyone experienced this, and how did you handle it.

Yes, I have. Team A up by 35 with 6+ minutes to go in 4Qtr. Team B is exhuasted and not attempting to defend (or not very good at defending). Team A begins a dribble stall drill to chew up the clock but in doing so this action turns into an "And 1 Mix Tape" display of showboating and embarassement as Team B simply stands around as if to have given up in humiliation.

I warn Coach A that his players are getting close to being unsporting he shrugs and smiles but no comment to his players. 10 seconds later I whack his star guard for taunting, he's gone. Coach A chirps to complain using profanity, I whack him he's gone.

Team A assistant coach gets the message loud and clear and proceeds to put an end to the humiliation, subs enter the game. Team B feels motivated to play, the remainder of the game goes on without a single stoppage coincidentally and we are out of there in 5 minutes.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Robmoz

Yes, I have. Team A up by 35 with 6+ minutes to go in 4Qtr. Team B is exhuasted and not attempting to defend (or not very good at defending). Team A begins a dribble stall drill to chew up the clock but in doing so this action turns into an "And 1 Mix Tape" display of showboating and embarassement as Team B simply stands around as if to have given up in humiliation.

I warn Coach A that his players are getting close to being unsporting he shrugs and smiles but no comment to his players. 10 seconds later I whack his star guard for taunting, he's gone. Coach A chirps to complain using profanity, I whack him he's gone.

Team A assistant coach gets the message loud and clear and proceeds to put an end to the humiliation, subs enter the game. Team B feels motivated to play, the remainder of the game goes on without a single stoppage coincidentally and we are out of there in 5 minutes.

Sounds good to me.

Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

[Goose]

All this brings up another question/situation.

True story that I can personally vouch for.

During my highschool years, Team A is good, real good. Team B is basically a bunch of country boys merely out to participate. Team B decides to play a few varsity guys during the JV game. Team B beats Team A's JV.

Now, Coach of Team A is fit to be tied. Losing to Team B whether it be Varsity or not, is a completely shamful in his eyes. He then decides to press Team B for the entire varsity game. Score ends up 160-ish to 20-ish. In fact, this game set the single highest scoring game in Pa. history up to that point (1970-71 era). Coach of Team A took huge flack from the media for intentionally running up the score and he admitted doing so.

Now, fast forward into the current situation. Let's see, could we T the coach for taunting? How about unsportmanship? I guess it comes down to, what would you do?

I see this as no different than the blowout where one team is showboating, or on the other hand, how about the team that jacks up 3 after 3 late in the game when they are ahead by 30. Could that too be considered taunting?

Caution here. Basically, the way I see it is that I am getting paid, and I get paid whether we go 4 OT's or whether the game is an outright blowout.

I once wrote a paper on what I considered the 3-5 most influential rules to change the game of basketball. One of them was the 10 second backcourt count. Believe it or not, before that count, you would have college games with scores of 4-2. Actually, I believe it was a game involving UCLA back in the 20's or 30's where they got the tap and then just sat down on the court. Neither team made a attempt to play. In fact some players even left the court. Then in the last minute of the game, they decided to play. This was basically the last staw and thus the birth of the 10 second backcourt count was instituted. Hey, living in the birthplace of basketball does have it's advantages when basketball history is needed.

Anyway, at what point are we to become judge and jury as to what constitutes a travesty? The way I see it is you are hired to do a job. Who cares is the game is good or not. Who cares if the players make asses of themselves. Taunting is another matter, but it would be hard to call taunting on a player if there were no jestures or verbal assults at another player.

anyway, just my 2 cents.


goose

[Stan]

Originally posted by Goose
All this brings up another question/situation.

True story that I can personally vouch for.

During my highschool years, Team A is good, real good. Team B is basically a bunch of country boys merely out to participate. Team B decides to play a few varsity guys during the JV game. Team B beats Team A's JV.

Now, Coach of Team A is fit to be tied. Losing to Team B whether it be Varsity or not, is a completely shamful in his eyes. He then decides to press Team B for the entire varsity game. Score ends up 160-ish to 20-ish. In fact, this game set the single highest scoring game in Pa. history up to that point (1970-71 era). Coach of Team A took huge flack from the media for intentionally running up the score and he admitted doing so.


goose

Goose, Kinda HTBT, however, In this sitch CyberRef said:
Second half, Team B flat out quits and applies token defense at best showing no interest to get back in the game. A-1 starts to showboat by excessive dribbling with no attempt to score. Crowd starts laughing, enjoying the comedy routine.

I like Robmoz' solution

[IAUMP]

As I have stated before, I am a football official, that coaches a 5th grade BB team. If there were no direct verbal comments or jestures, I would go balistic if my team was given a T for dribbling and not running up the score. Personally, it sounds as if B was making a travesty of the game by not playing defense.

[LarryS]

Well said Goose.

Before my daughter gave up the traditional sports for competitive cheerleading her JH basketball team won their last game by 58 (6 minute quarters).

At the end of the first quarter it was 20-0 and they never pressed. Coach put in the subs...score at the half was something like 35-2. Coach asked for a running clock in the second half and told the players if the did not pass the ball 5 times on each possession it would be reflected in their grade. Start of the 4th quarter, since nobody had come close to making a 3-pointer all year (I think one girl actually hit the rim once), she forced them to practice 3's after the 5th pass. Final score was 62-4.

One of the parents was keeping stats for the coach. When we looked at them after the game we noticed that my daughter's team missed a total of 2 shots all game.

Now they weren't showboating...but sounds like some of you would have considered the attempted 3's as unsporting when it was actually an attempt to hold the score down.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by LarryS
Well said Goose.

Before my daughter gave up the traditional sports for competitive cheerleading her JH basketball team won their last game by 58 (6 minute quarters).

At the end of the first quarter it was 20-0 and they never pressed. Coach put in the subs...score at the half was something like 35-2. Coach asked for a running clock in the second half and told the players if the did not pass the ball 5 times on each possession it would be reflected in their grade. Start of the 4th quarter, since nobody had come close to making a 3-pointer all year (I think one girl actually hit the rim once), she forced them to practice 3's after the 5th pass. Final score was 62-4.

One of the parents was keeping stats for the coach. When we looked at them after the game we noticed that my daughter's team missed a total of 2 shots all game.

Now they weren't showboating...but sounds like some of you would have considered the attempted 3's as unsporting when it was actually an attempt to hold the score down.

Apples and oranges. The play you described is nothing like what I imagined when the originally posted play was described. To me the original poster made it seem like the one team that was ahead was showboating almost like Harlem Globetrotter style. That's what I was picturing. What you described doesn't sound like showboating at all. Two completely different scenarios.