The AMLU's Birmingham Folly

[BlueLawyer]

Ok, a Triple-A umpire gets 15k per year to work the season. If the Triple A guy works 162 games a year, that works out to $10.28 per scheduled inning.

I get $95 to do a HS doubleheader- two seven inning games. That's $6.79 per scheduled inning. Generally speaking, I am not expected to raise my family on that.

I wonder what the average DI umpire gets per inning?

Strikes and outs!

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

Can you be hired to work in one of those leagues straight out of school?

I know of a couple guys who went to professional baseball school straight out of college and had only umpired a handful of local rec games prior. They were hired to work Instructional Leagues shortly after. Can that happen in football?

Viagra...

Originally Posted by Rut

There is no such thing as "pro school" in football or any other sport. You go to camps, get recommended and you might get a shot at another level (college or pro). Usually those that want to work college or pro have to apply directly to the conference or pro leagues and based on their history they might be given a shot. Actually the NFL does have a "scouting program" where an official can be seen at a game (they claim any level) and brought into their training program and given a shot at both Arena Leagues and the World Football League as a way to possibly promote those officials to the NFL some day. This is a fairly new program and I do not know of anyone that has achieved directly from the "scouting program" that was implemented a few years ago. If the NFL sees you as a candidate, they usually work some World League seasons before they get a full time job.

BTW, the officials that work those leagues "minor" football leagues get paid a lot more money for fewer game than those that work Minor League Baseball. The football officials get to go home and get more benefits than guys working Minor League Baseball.

Once again, you see my name and jump in with both feet - well before you realize how deep you will sink!

Read your first sentence again. Now read my question again.

I distictly asked if the NFL hires straight out of school. I know exactly what that means, but you obviously don't. The point I was trying to make is that you can't compare the two systems. No other sport has the same training structure for players and officials. I even gave an example of a guy that didn't work high school ball before Evans' camp. He was hired staright out of it. How often does that happen in the NFL.

You never cease to amaze, Rut. This topic has been covered ad nauseum and you continue to insist on looking like a buffoon. You are like the first grader at a Physicist's convention. Your opinion becomes moot when you don't even understand the question. Now, go to the back of the class and wait for us to call on you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

Once again, you see my name and jump in with both feet - well before you realize how deep you will sink!

Read your first sentence again. Now read my question again.

Actually Windbag, you would be wrong once again. I have let you rant and rant and rant and I did not even respond to any of your so-called in the know posts. You say the same thing over and over again. You are boring to deal with because as always you run your mouth but have no integrity to back it up. Where I come from, people say things to your face if they have a problem with you. They do not say one thing behind your back and tell a different story when they have the chance. I was not responding about you. I was responding because you were talking about something I have direct knowledge about and you were out of your league.

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

I distictly asked if the NFL hires straight out of school. I know exactly what that means, but you obviously don't. The point I was trying to make is that you can't compare the two systems. No other sport has the same training structure for players and officials. I even gave an example of a guy that didn't work high school ball before Evans' camp. He was hired staright out of it. How often does that happen in the NFL.

There is no pro school in football. There is no such animal. It does not exist. But the NFL does train and evaluate officials in the leagues they own and market (which I already stated). As usually you keep talking about something that does not exist and is not relevant to this discussion. This is why I responded because you do not know what you are talking about and someone might actually think there is a “pro school” for football and there clearly is not.

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

You never cease to amaze, Rut. This topic has been covered ad nauseum and you continue to insist on looking like a buffoon. You are like the first grader at a Physicist's convention. Your opinion becomes moot when you don't even understand the question. Now, go to the back of the class and wait for us to call on you.

You can call me all the names you like. You can accuse me of all kinds of things. The reality is everything you say about me the opposite takes place. So you can call me a buffoon, but I have accomplished just about everything you claim I would not or could not accomplish. And as usual you still sit behind the computer screen and hide like a little b@t@h.

Peace

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

I distictly asked if the NFL hires straight out of school. I know exactly what that means, but you obviously don't. The point I was trying to make is that you can't compare the two systems. No other sport has the same training structure for players and officials. I even gave an example of a guy that didn't work high school ball before Evans' camp. He was hired staright out of it. How often does that happen in the NFL.

[Quote=Nutledge]There is no pro school in football. There is no such animal. It does not exist.Yes, you finally get it...that's what I've been saying all along. Stop twisting the facts.

But the NFL does train and evaluate officials in the leagues they own and market (which I already stated). As usually you keep talking about something that does not exist and is not relevant to this discussion. No, that is your job. Everyone else knows that you do it really well.

This is why I responded because you do not know what you are talking about and someone might actually think there is a “pro school” for football and there clearly is not. No, you responded to me because you couldn't understand the point and can't wait to try to correct me. Unfortunately for you, you didn't read the question and continue to insist that I was incorrect. Go back and read (or have someone read it to you) and you'll find that the NFL is in no way, shape or form close to MLB when it comes to recruiting, training and maintaining the next generation of officials.

I swear to God, you see my name and get in a lather. It is not flattering that you have a hardon for me. You are really embarrassing and should consider a nom de net. That and some Lithium might help your cause. Good night!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can call me all the names you like

Rut,

Windy did not call you any names. He said you were "like" a buffoon, and "like" a first-grader. These are similes, not names that you were called.

simile:

n : a figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds (usually formed with `like' or `as').

[JRutledge]

Steve,

I was not talking to you.

Peace

[MrB]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

Ok, a Triple-A umpire gets 15k per year to work the season. If the Triple A guy works 162 games a year, that works out to $10.28 per scheduled inning.

I get $95 to do a HS doubleheader- two seven inning games. That's $6.79 per scheduled inning. Generally speaking, I am not expected to raise my family on that.

I wonder what the average DI umpire gets per inning?

Strikes and outs!

Between $18 and $50 per scheduled inning. I am at $25 per this weekend.

[DIV2ump]

Originally Posted by MrB

Between $18 and $50 per scheduled inning. I am at $25 per this weekend.

If you're talking compensation you have to include benefits.

What does the per inning number come out to if you include the extras that the A/AA/AAA guys get:

1. Mileage
2. Housing (hotels)
3. 12 mos. health insurance
4. " dental "
5. " vision???"

Do they get anything else? (employer provided uniforms or equipment, etc.)

When you talk about per inning cost you have to cost out all the things that are involved, you can just compare salary. Benefits typically run 25-30% of salary but it may be higher here because the umpires work a short time and the benefits run year round.

[BenedictArnold]

Well lets see. The AMLU guys do get insurance, you are right. But just for the sake of argument, lets look a little closer.

Insurance is approx. $200/month. If they work 180 games, as most do, that is an additional $13/day per day worked.

As for hotel and stuff, I am not convinced that counts. While they are away MiLB doesn't pay for the home that their families live in. Granted, some don't have wives and kids, but this still doesn't hold water. Besides, most clubs comp out the rooms for the umpires with advertisements in the outfield.

Mileage reimbursement...seriously, do I even have to explain this with the current gas rates? This doesn't even take into account the depreciation of the umpires personal vehicles.

Uniforms are free to PBUC and the umpires pay for their own equipment. Let me say that again...uniforms cost PBUC nothing, but the umpires must buy their own facemasks and other incidentals every year.

All in all, I think it is safe to say that a D1 umpire makes out a lot better.


There are a lot of other things that people don't take into account. But consider this. As a former MiLB umpire, my Grandmother passed away one summer while I was traveling. Since it wasn't my immediate family per se, I was permitted to fly home the day of the wake, stay for the funeral, and was expected on the field the very next night. And to the boys and girls keeping score, I paid for the airplane ticket and my league (The Southern League) did not pay me for the days I missed. I am not talking about per diem here, I am talking about my salary. It was docked. Anyone know how expensive it is to buy a ticket on 2 days notice where you fly back in 4 days. Needless to say, I just about broke even for that month in the game.

I know I am not going to convince everyone to see things my way. But in the very least I would just like to share with you some situations that may shed some light on the fact that the AMLU guys needed to stand up for themselves. It is not about chasing a dream and being greedy. It is about being realistic in the goals and evaluating their performance. Baseball may be big and bad, but these guys are trying to make it a little better and trying to keep their heads above the financial water. They are sinking right now. They are sinking because they have people pulling them under the water every day on every minor league field. Then you come home and you read some of these posts. These people draw conclusions that are totally unfounded. Just know that the minor league umpires are not bad people. They had a scab gallery. Well they took it down. They want to get on that field very badly. The few guys I still know in the game are hungry for game action. But at this point when you are told you are worth an additional $100 a month and $2 a day with the costs in this country...give me a break. I don't smoke, but I am going to guess that a pack of cigarettes cost approximately half of what it costs today from 2000. Everything is more expensive. Baseball may have all the power and money...but it doesn't make what they are doing right.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

Well lets see. The AMLU guys do get insurance, you are right. But just for the sake of argument, lets look a little closer.

Insurance is approx. $200/month. If they work 180 games, as most do, that is an additional $13/day per day worked.

$200 per month for insurance? That seems cheap to me. There are many people out there that have no insurance.

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

As for hotel and stuff, I am not convinced that counts. While they are away MiLB doesn't pay for the home that their families live in. Granted, some don't have wives and kids, but this still doesn't hold water. Besides, most clubs comp out the rooms for the umpires with advertisements in the outfield.

Sure it counts if it doesn't cost the umpire anything. It doesn't matter how much (or little) the employer pays for the room, it's how much does it cost the umpire. I do not know of many companies that pay for the home that their employees familes live in...that's what you use your pay check for.

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

Mileage reimbursement...seriously, do I even have to explain this with the current gas rates? This doesn't even take into account the depreciation of the umpires personal vehicles.

Care to guess how many people drive long distances to work and don't receive a penny for mileage?

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

Uniforms are free to PBUC and the umpires pay for their own equipment. Let me say that again...uniforms cost PBUC nothing, but the umpires must buy their own facemasks and other incidentals every year.

Free to the umpire is still free and still a benifit, no matter what it cost the PBUC. I do not buy suits or other clothes for my employees to wear.

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

All in all, I think it is safe to say that a D1 umpire makes out a lot better.

If you are expecting to make a career out of the minor leagues then maybe you should work D1.

The money, time and sacrafice of working A/AA/AAA ball is an investment. There is no guarantee that it will ever pay dividends. I grow weary of hearing about the great sacrafices these guys are making......BS. They know (knew) how difficult the road ahead of them was (or should have). They know (knew) that few of them will ever make it to MLB. The dream of making it to MLB drove them to make the choices they have made.....

[SAump]

Originally Posted by DIV2ump

If you're talking compensation you have to include benefits.

What does the per inning number come out to if you include the extras that the A/AA/AAA guys get:

1. Mileage
2. Housing (hotels)
3. 12 mos. health insurance
4. " dental "
5. " vision???"

Do they get anything else? (employer provided uniforms or equipment, etc.)

When you talk about per inning cost you have to cost out all the things that are involved, you can just compare salary. Benefits typically run 25-30% of salary but it may be higher here because the umpires work a short time and the benefits run year round.

-----------------------------------
1. Mileage, 2. Housing (hotels), 3. 12 mos. health insurance, 4. " dental " and 5. " vision???"

Wrong Idea: These are not compensation benefits (vacation, paid-time off, sick leave), extras (company car, clothing or equipment freebies), or anything else (signed autographs, dinners with future Hall of Famers). What fringe benefits are provided by MiLB? Probably NONE.

These are additional costs of doing BUSINESS and as such these costs are past on to the EMPLOYER who receives significant discounts and tax savings on group insurance and travel accomodations. PBUC's insurance policy is probably on the same "rider" as all other minor league players and officials. As cost of doing business, PBUC can pre-arrange and pay these expenses directly to vendors (La Quinta, Avis, Health HMO's) at significant savings.

If the working UMP paid for these so-called benefits out of his pocket, then he would have to subtract them from his salary. SAlary would then come out to probably $THOUSANDS LESS THAN ZERO.

Right Idea: SAlary includes fee for services provided over any ordinary time period (yearly, monthly, etc.) or and real time job related period (season, game, inning, out, etc.).

REIMBURSEMENT for related expenses associated with employment travel requirements include MILAGE and PER DIEM. This money should OFFSET the cost employees must pay directly associated with travel requirements. The employee would have to legally report any additional income made from this participation or be subject to termination and IRS audit.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Uniforms are free to PBUC and the umpires pay for their own equipment. Let me say that again...uniforms cost PBUC nothing, but the umpires must buy their own facemasks and other incidentals every year.

That's is a surprise to me...back in my day, I recieved almost all of my gear free. Buck Parsons at +POS was only too happy to have us sporting the top gear. I'm sure I helped him sell a lot of equipment whenever I worked or taught classes.

I have a couple of friends who just got out and one who finished school within the past two years. All are working games as replacements. We correspond regularly, so I posed this question to them earlier today. Did you buy all of your gear when you were working in the Minors? All of them purchased some gear on their own, but they recieved masks, CP and shin guards from various vendors gratis. Maybe what they did was a breach of code, but if Gerry Davis or Dick Honig hand you a $100 mask and tell you it is for free, you smile and say thank you.

Anyway, things may different for you. I don't claim to know it all, just some interesting tidbits every now and then.

SDS - He wasn't talking to you. (grin, chuckle, snort)

[SanDiegoSteve]

He wasn't talking to me???? Well, raise my rent!

Now when has that ever stopped me from yanking his chain?

[BlueLawyer]

I guess I just have my quasi-Marxist tendancies burned too deep into me. I guess I still believe in the radical notion that while it is legal for investors to organize and pool resources into corporations, it ought to be legal for those who provide the labor to organize and bargain collectively. I know. Communism.

$15,000 a year is the MAXIMUM they make. That's the guys in AAA. Yeah, they go do schools. Yeah, they go do spring ball and fall ball and clinics and and and. I would be embarrassed, if I were PBUC, if I were trying to defend what I bet works out to something like minimum wage (or below) for the guys on the field who take the most crap and do their professional best, night in and night out.

Seriously, guys, how many of us make, in our jobs, what a Triple-A guy makes? How many of us on this site who work as "part-time" or "amatuer" umpires make more than most minor league guys? I will make more than a Rookie League or Short Season A ball guy this year. It won't take much- 75 dates or so. At the end of high school season I will be more than half way there.

We can argue and we can fuss. Until we have walked the mile in the plate shoes, I think those of us who cast derision on the minor league blues are being awfully judgmental and in the wrong way.

Strikes and outs!

[Justme]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

I guess I just have my quasi-Marxist tendancies burned too deep into me. I guess I still believe in the radical notion that while it is legal for investors to organize and pool resources into corporations, it ought to be legal for those who provide the labor to organize and bargain collectively. I know. Communism.

$15,000 a year is the MAXIMUM they make. That's the guys in AAA. Yeah, they go do schools. Yeah, they go do spring ball and fall ball and clinics and and and. I would be embarrassed, if I were PBUC, if I were trying to defend what I bet works out to something like minimum wage (or below) for the guys on the field who take the most crap and do their professional best, night in and night out.

Seriously, guys, how many of us make, in our jobs, what a Triple-A guy makes? How many of us on this site who work as "part-time" or "amatuer" umpires make more than most minor league guys? I will make more than a Rookie League or Short Season A ball guy this year. It won't take much- 75 dates or so. At the end of high school season I will be more than half way there.

We can argue and we can fuss. Until we have walked the mile in the plate shoes, I think those of us who cast derision on the minor league blues are being awfully judgmental and in the wrong way.

Strikes and outs!

Who is forcing them to work minor league ball? Why do they work minor league ball?