The AMLU's Birmingham Folly

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

To take a page from Carl's book:

I hereby proclaim that we can solve another pressing problem of financing those who make insufficient livings. If we simply garnish 1% of the salaries of Tom Cruise, Julia Roberts, Tom Hanks, Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Anjelina Jolie, Michael Douglas and the other top film stars, we will be able to provide adequate incomes for the scores of Hollywood neophytes with SAG cards. Better yet, let's abscond with just 1% of the studios profits - these young men and women who dream of making it through Hollywoods' narrowest door won't have to work overnight at Starbucks and walk dogs in between auditions. Doesn't anybody understand that Hollywood has abused these low level actors long enough? Working for scale just doesn't cut it when you dream of stepping onto a soundstage and under the lights. It is simply not fair that the big wigs drive fancy cars and shoot around the world in G5s while supping on Caviar and Foie Gras. I say enough of the madness...revenue sharing for all!!!(bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha and evil music crescendo - fade to black)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Carl Childress

Double the minimum wage and you'll cut in half the problems you have in the Drive-thru.

You built your business, not by retaining 1% of your employees' wages, but by keeping as much as you could while still being able to hire workers. Your "tax" was, as you know, far more than one percent.

My plan hints of socialism? Let me tell you socialism: medicare, defense, social security, homeland security, roads, levees (except in New Orleans). My plan does not scatter the money over the general populace.

And besides, if socialism is so bad, why is it built into the fabric of society everywhere? Remember Star Trek II: The good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one.

Yes, but don't forget Star Trek III.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by Justme

The only 'true' examples of socialism, since to the best of my knowledge Star Trek II was a sci-fi movie, are places like the the former USSR and even to some extent Canada.

I am certainly no political scientist, so I don't what "true" socialism is...however, it seems to me that the NFL is a pretty socialist league. It has a "hard" salary cap, no guaranteed contracts, extensive revenue sharing, "hard" minimum player's salary, virtually no local TV revenue exclusive to one team, etc.

I know its not "pure" socialism (i.e. players can still be "free agents" and let the market dicate how much money they can get) however it has a lot of socialism in it structure.

And, on top of it all, the NFL was recently rated the most valuable league in the world (passing the English Premiere League) by Forbes or Fortune or some business journal (I forget which one).

Most of the journalists I read and/or listen to (Boston Globe, SI, ESPN, Washington Post...on a regular basis) agree that the NFL right now is by FAR the most successful league in the country in a business sense.

[LMan]

How are NFL officials trained, selected, and paid?

[lawump]

I anticipated this post. My (limited) understanding is they invite whom they have deemed as being top college officials to try-out with the NFL. Those who are hired for the first time are given a two-year probation period. If they don't make it they're cut. I think I once read that the NFL has a 10-percent annual turnover rate with its on-field officiating staff.

With the officials working one-game a week, they are classified as "part-time". According to my on-line research, prior to the 2001 season, a five-year veteran made $27,000+ (remember they are paid per game). During 2001 they had a labor strife with the NFL. According to the archived news story I found on-line, the strife was settled with a new deal that said all salaries would rise 100% by the sixth year of the deal (2006). So, if that's true (I haven't seen the deal...only the news story reporting it) a five-year veteran this up-coming season would be paid $54,000 (to work 16 games, doesn't include post-season).

Thus, in 2006 a five-year veteran gets $54,000/16= $3,375. Plus they get expense money. 20-year veterans are well above this amount.

Since the NFL has no minor leagues, I guess one could consider Division 1-A football the equivalent of "AAA" baseball. Though I have absolutely no idea how much a Division I-A football official makes, I'm willing to bet its much higher than a "AAA" umpire on a per game basis.

(This is speculation...but I bet a BCS conference referee makes much more than $500 per game. (In fact I found on-line that BCS bowl officials in 2004 got paid $1,400). So I'm reasonably certain they make more than $500 per game during the regular season. Just speculating...but if they worked 4 Saturdays a month at $750/game (plus expenses) that's $3,000. $3,000 for four games in a month vs. $3,000 for 30 games in a month for a veteran in AA.)

Frankly, I think comparing baseball umpires to NFL officials is like comparing Apples to Oranges for a lot of reasons. Obviously, one thing they do have in common is that both an NFL official and a MiLB umpire can be released a lot more easily than an MLB umpire.

I only raised the NFL in my prior post to suggest that not all socialist systems end up in failure...that the NFL itself as a league has benefitted tremendously from such a system. I did not raise the NFL to try and draw a comparison between MLB and/or MiLB umpires and NFL officials.

[Justme]

An "economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class. In practice, such a distribution of wealth is achieved by social ownership of the means of production, exchange and diffusion.

or

Economic system centered on the belief that the means of production (such as land) should be collectively owned and that market exchange should be replaced by collectively controlled distribution based on social needs.

or

A leftist political ideology that emphasizes the principle of equality and usually prescribes a large role for government to intervene in society and the economy via taxation, regulation, redistribution, and public ownership.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by Justme

A leftist political ideology that emphasizes the principle of equality and usually prescribes a large role for government to intervene in society and the economy via taxation, regulation, redistribution, and public ownership.

If you replace the word "government" with "NFL" it fits pretty well. The League intervenes heavily in its "society" (i.e. the 32 franchises) with heavy regulation (salary caps; minimum player salaries); redistribution (revenue sharing); taxation (rich teams are "taxed" on their local revenue streams) and public ownership (i.e. the League as a whole owns the right to negotiate virtually all TV coverage of the league...other than some pre-season games. Hell the League now owns its own TV network...and is there any doubt that in 15 years the NFL network will replace ESPN as its major cable broadcaster? The league even has an interest in a large number of stadiums used by NFL Teams since the LEAGUE financed or helped to finance their construction).

And as I said...the NFL, with the exception of a little labor hiccup this off-season (which was resolved without a labor stoppage) just keeps humming along.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

The NFL has a commissioner with a set of big, brass ones. Even in his lame duck year he is secure in his control of the league.

Since the NFL doesn't have a Minor League system for training the next generation of officials, it is really ludicrous to compare the two.

I still can't believe that anyone would think that revenue sharing from MLB for the MiLB officials was a prudent (let alone possible) idea. At least I am not alone in my astonishment.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

Since the NFL doesn't have a Minor League system for training the next generation of officials, it is really ludicrous to compare the two.

Ever heard of Arena Football League? Ever heard of the World Football League? You are right once again, the NFL uses no league to train and evaluate officials.

Peace

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Can you be hired to work in one of those leagues straight out of school?

I know of a couple guys who went to professional baseball school straight out of college and had only umpired a handful of local rec games prior. They were hired to work Instructional Leagues shortly after. Can that happen in football?

Viagra...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

Can you be hired to work in one of those leagues straight out of school?

I know of a couple guys who went to professional baseball school straight out of college and had only umpired a handful of local rec games prior. They were hired to work Instructional Leagues shortly after. Can that happen in football?

Viagra...

There is no such thing as "pro school" in football or any other sport. You go to camps, get recommended and you might get a shot at another level (college or pro). Usually those that want to work college or pro have to apply directly to the conference or pro leagues and based on their history they might be given a shot. Actually the NFL does have a "scouting program" where an official can be seen at a game (they claim any level) and brought into their training program and given a shot at both Arena Leagues and the World Football League as a way to possibly promote those officials to the NFL some day. This is a fairly new program and I do not know of anyone that has achieved directly from the "scouting program" that was implemented a few years ago. If the NFL sees you as a candidate, they usually work some World League seasons before they get a full time job.

BTW, the officials that work those leagues "minor" football leagues get paid a lot more money for fewer game than those that work Minor League Baseball. The football officials get to go home and get more benefits than guys working Minor League Baseball.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

The NFL has a commissioner with a set of big, brass ones. Even in his lame duck year he is secure in his control of the league.

Since the NFL doesn't have a Minor League system for training the next generation of officials, it is really ludicrous to compare the two.

I still can't believe that anyone would think that revenue sharing from MLB for the MiLB officials was a prudent (let alone possible) idea. At least I am not alone in my astonishment.

The NFL uses the two Arena leagues and NFL Europe as training grounds. I believe no official has gone straight from college ball to the NFL in at least the last five or six years.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

The NFL uses the two Arena leagues and NFL Europe as training grounds. I believe no official has gone straight from college ball to the NFL in at least the last five or six years.

That is not entirely true. There were two guys in my association that got to the NFL directly from the Big Ten in the past 4 years or so. Remember these leagues play football in the normal off-season. They can be active D1 officials and still work NFL Europe or Arena Ball at the same time. Usually an NFL prospect is going to work both for a couple of years if they are being seriously considered. There is no magic formula to getting hired by the NFL. I just know the two guys I know never stopped working D1 ball until they got hired by the NFL. Also many Arena League officials are current D1 officials. There are many that are in my association that currently work both D1 in the fall and Arena League in the spring and summer. The current assignor for the Arena League belongs to my association and is a current Big Ten crew chief.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is not entirely true. There were two guys in my association that got to the NFL directly from the Big Ten in the past 4 years or so. Remember these leagues play football in the normal off-season. They can be active D1 officials and still work NFL Europe or Arena Ball at the same time. Usually an NFL prospect is going to work both for a couple of years if they are being seriously considered. There is no magic formula to getting hired by the NFL. I just know the two guys I know never stopped working D1 ball until they got hired by the NFL. Also many Arena League officials are current D1 officials. There are many that are in my association that currently work both D1 in the fall and Arena League in the spring and summer. The current assignor for the Arena League belongs to my association and is a current Big Ten crew chief.

Peace

If they worked Arena or NFL Europe prior to going to the NFL, then what I said IS true, regardless if they also worked D-1 at the same time. According to an NLF official who belongs to our association, the no one is going straight from college to the NFL. They are all working in the Arena and/or NLF Europe leagues first. The current set up treats the two Arena leagues like A and AA minors and NFL Europe like AAA minors.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

If they worked Arena or NFL Europe prior to going to the NFL, then what I said IS true, regardless if they also worked D-1 at the same time. According to an NLF official who belongs to our association, the no one is going straight from college to the NFL. They are all working in the Arena and/or NLF Europe leagues first. The current set up treats the two Arena leagues like A and AA minors and NFL Europe like AAA minors.

That is why I made the comment, "Not entirely true." Some people might have taken your comments and assumed that they had to stop working D1 ball while working at NFL Europe. I just wanted to make it clear that unlike baseball, you do not have to make a decision to work only pro ball to get to the top level. Other than that we are in complete agreement.

Peace