Issued my first Forfeit yesterday

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by nickrego

Christian teams *** (3 letter abbrev. for Assistant) coach on first goes crazy, arguing it is fair because it rested in fair territory, and F1 was standing in fair territory when he made contact. I got him calmed down, told him what I saw, informed him of the rule, and got him to go back to his spot, without ejecting him.

Again, I think that you are giving FAR FAR FAR too much leeway to ASSistant coaches. Assistant coaches have 1 job - coaching their players. Their job is NOT to give any lip to the umpires. If it requires ANY effort more than 4 words and a stop sign to "calm down" as ASSistant coach, he's gone. The manager gets more leeway, but HE is the only one who should be disputing/discussing calls with you.

And as an aside, interestingly I've never had problems with a Christian school in baseball, but I would agree with all of the above comments regarding the poor behavior/demeanor of the Christian school FOOTBALL coaches I've worked with, as compared to their public school brethren.

[Rich]

I have to throw in a counter-story, just to show they aren't ALL like this.

I work a D3 college conference where one school is a Bible College. This school's coach only EVER gets upset when kids on the other team throw an F-bomb that he can hear at which point I just ask the other team's head coach to help me out.

In 3 seasons of working this school, I can't remember any other comments or arguments coming from this school.

[SAump]

Thanks for cleaning the kettle a bit.

PEACE to ALL.

[jumpmaster]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I would have to agree with you 1000 % on that.

But if your going to choose a coach for a Christian HS, I think you should choose a Christian coach. Every one of them. They not only coach the team, they represent the school, and everything it stands for. Knowing the sport is not enough. They need to have the same beliefs the school was founded on, and believes in.

Just my humble opinion (HMO).

not necessarily...one of the local private Christian schools hired the son of the pastor to be the head coach. Because of the actions of this coach, I have voluntarily scratched myself from working any of their football games. The guy is a fraud and a knucklehead.

I believe that HS sports are an extension of the classroom...HS sports at a Christian school are an extension of the classroom and the Bible. If the coach can't conduct himself appropriately and the administrators refuse to correct the situation, I refuse to work their games.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

No. Telling the catcher to move up so you can get a better view is like you telling the center to stop posting up because he's getting in your way.

The players play. We umpire. The first time you tell a catcher to move up for your convenience, and he has a passed ball because he's not where he is used to being, you've negatively affected the game. I have no problem with (if asked) telling a coach that bad positioning by the catcher is causing your position behind the catcher to be not ideal, so it's possible you're missing some strikes. But telling the CATCHER to move is wrong.

Early in my career, in a game I was observing, an old smitty PU told a catcher to move up twice, and on the very next pitch, the batter hit the catcher's glove hard. Catcher had to be replaced, by a kid who had no idea what he was doing back there. Coach had to be replaced, as his (justified, in my mind) tirade at PU was rather protracted. And when all the facts came to the board, the umpire was reprimanded.

Well, I must disagree. As I said, I don't tell high school catchers, or American Legion catchers, or college catchers, or adult league catchers where to position themselves. They already know what they are doing. I am talking about lower level kids that have no clue of how to actually catch a baseball, and that expect me to catch it for them on EVERY OTHER PITCH!!! I have asked (never demanded) or suggested to (never insisted on) catchers to move up a little (not to where they would stick their stupid gloves into the bat path) for going on 21 years now.

I will tell a catcher, "hey, you are costing your pitcher some strikes by being so far back, and if you can manage it, you should get in closer, buddy." That is more or less how I handle it. Or, I just move up a foot while he's throwing it back to the pitcher, and then he will just have to adjust now, won't he?

I've never gotten a kid injured, nor have a rash of passed balls developed from it (any more than were already occurring every other pitch), an in fact improved the quality of most of their catching, and gave their pitchers a target that they could actually see without binoculars, thus less passed balls, not more.

Like I said before, I have had many young catchers thank me profusely for "wising them up" as Ward Cleaver would say. They have, on many occasions when thanking me, told me that their coach never took the time to show them anything.

I never have just worked HS ball and that's all, like some guys do. I worked and still do work at every level of amateur baseball where they use an umpire. The younger players (12 and younger) occasionally need a little mechanical help, which often, sadly enough, does not come from their coaches.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I have to throw in a counter-story, just to show they aren't ALL like this.

I work a D3 college conference where one school is a Bible College. This school's coach only EVER gets upset when kids on the other team throw an F-bomb that he can hear at which point I just ask the other team's head coach to help me out.

In 3 seasons of working this school, I can't remember any other comments or arguments coming from this school.

would that be Marantha? i watched my brother's team play them once and i think i remember seeing the coach flip out about this, but it could have been another school. im pretty sure you work in that area, but i could be completely wrong.

[DG]

I have never said a word to a catcher about setting up "too far back". It's the ones who crowd the plate so much I can't get a good look at it that I speak to.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I don't like the plate crowders either. I like to be able to just see the entire plate, and that is all. The catcher then is not so close as to get his glove whacked on every swing, but not so far back that he makes every strike look like a ball.

Like I said, my usual way is to just set up where I want to stand, and the catcher will often back into me, and realize I want him up more.

[DG]

A catcher will never back into me and I will never ask one to move up.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I don't like the plate crowders either. I like to be able to just see the entire plate, and that is all.

You need to see the plate to call pitches ? What a concept !

I'm kind of joking, but kind of not.

I use the GD Stance, so I set up in the same place no matter where the catcher is. After a while, you get used to knowing where the plate is, even when you can't see all of it. Because I am in (almost) exactly the same place for every pitch, I know where the/my zone is, even if there was no plate at all.

Hey, there's another idea...Lose the plate, then nobody can argue our pitch calling.

[PeteBooth]

Bottom of 5th: Home 9 - Visitors 0

Visitors make their first pitching change. Put in a kid that was throwing really slow / off-speed curves & junk. These pitches were ugly, but many of them were very fat strikes. I rung up one batter on a curve, a second went down swinging, and the third fly's out. I could tell the home team was getting pissy, because they didn't get that 10th run to make it a slaughter, and end the game early.

There is many things going on here so i will ddress them one at a time.

1. You say the pitches were ugly but were fat strikes. Not sure what you mean. In any event, you are in the bottom of 5 sounds like the game is ugly so do what you can to get that 10th run and go home. it's apparent from what you describe that the VT was not going to score anywhere near 10 runs.

2. The aforementioned does excuse the behavior that ensued. The one thing I find today that was NOT present when I played, is "What's the score" When we were up by 9 runs or more with only 2 innings left we swung the bats. get the game over with. in fact we wanted the PU to open up the zone to get the game over with.

3. IMO, your partner's behavior is the BIGGEST issue in the thread. In HS after umpiring for 2 yrs or more, we get to know the coaches, however, we BOTH enter the field together and check the equipment and we BOTH leave the field together. I would have a conversation with this partner first and find out what his story was and then contact the assignor and tell hime what happened.

SUMMARY: In the future, whenever you can get the mercy rule - get it and go home. Carry a cell phone etc. and as soon as someone bumps you - Do not be Mr. Nice-guy call the police and have him arrested.

NOTE: We are now instructed even in Summer ball that whenever a caoch/assitant coach or player bumps you to call the police. As mentioned no more Mr. Nice guy. it's time to put an end to such nonsense. the team is up by 9 runs and the assistant is going ballistic tells you all you need to know about this individual.

Pete Booth

[RPatrino]

Nick, I do a lot of PSAL (Parochial School Athletic League) here in the East Bay area. My experience has been quite the opposite with the behavior of coach's and player's. I also do lot of other non-parochial ball as well, and the behavior of those player's and coach's is a lot different than the PSAL. I was blown away when before my first PSAL game, the two teams gathered at home plate for a prayer.

As for the GD, you will need to make some adjustments. But you are correct, for the most part, you set up in the same place, at the same head height for every batter. The most common adjustment I make is "up and back" to try to get a clearer view of the plate.

Bob P.