Issued my first Forfeit yesterday

[big]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I was taught never to forfeit a game under any circumstances.

Fed rules which most of my games are played under state "no coach-no game." Automatic forfiet.

I've been taught just the opposite of TussAgee11. If you eject a player or coach and they refuse to leave the field forfiet the game. If there is no allowance (threat) for forfeit why would a coach or player take you or your ejection serious?

I will say that in the past ten years I've only ever forfeited one game because the coach refused to leave. Around here all of the coaches know the law of the land. When your ejected, leave! If not wait a couple of minutes and you can take the rest of the team with you!

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance.

OBR:
If that is so, why does section 2 include the definition
of forfeited game ?
Also 3.11 case book notes, 3.18 case book, 4.15(a) - 4.15(g),
4.16,4.17.

9.04(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher.
His duties shall be to:

(6) Decide when a game shall be forfeited


Edited for clarity.

[TussAgee11]

Ok, No-coach, you got 15 minutes. That's in FED.

For a coach not leaving the field? Don't utter the word forfeit. You tell go tell an assistant coach, after ejecting the manager, that "Ok coach, who's going to be your manager for the rest of the game. (wait for reply), OK, he needs to get the former manager to leave, because until he is out of my sight and sound, we are not starting this game. If he doesn't comply with this, we will wait. It is your best interest to get this game back underway, otherwise this game will be SUSPENDED and I will call the league president and my assigner about this situation. There will be far more repercussions for you and your team if I have to SUSPEND this game. Thankyou. (walk away)"

He doesn't like that? Toss him too. Then go to the next coach, right down the line until you got none left. Then say "you got 15 minutes to present a certified coach, and I want to see his documents (each state varies on this part)". Stand quietly on the line, if the situation gets out of control say "this game is suspended and both teams will be notified about its outcome by the league." Walk off the field, get in your car, drive away, park a mile down the road, and change.

Thats how I learned it. More than open to constructive critisisms from NCAA or JUCO umpires, or experienced FED umps. This is how I was taught from an NCAA umpire at a clinic, I'm not just making this up, so don't shoot me for it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance.

I don't work baseball anymore but even I know better than that.

You might want to buy a rule book and read it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't work baseball anymore but even I know better than that.

You might want to buy a rule book and read it.

Matter of fact, this is one of the places where the umpire-in-chief has authority over other umpires on the crew....

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance.

Tuss,

I believe what people have a problem with is your use of the words "never" and "any circumstance." There most certainly are circumstances in which an umpire has not only the right, but the obligation to forfeit games.

[TussAgee11]

I'm just telling you what I was taught.

There are plenty of stuff in the rulebook that sometimes we go against because its "code", if you know what I mean.

Don't shoot me about it, I told you I wanted constructive critisism, however some of you can't do that without blaming me for what I was taught...

Sorry for having been in a bad clinic or something cause its clearly my fault...

I was told this was a code of the umpire not to forfeit games.

[DG]

1. A catcher falls to his knees to catch a breaking ball, I call a ball.
2. Catcher makes an ejection level remark to me and I don't walk over to him calmly and have a conversation with him. I instantly give my best ejection signal and "you're gone" is all he hears. Everybody in the park will know what just happened.
3. Anybody comes running out of the dugout at me after I just ejected a player and they will not get to me before they also get the best ejection signal and "you're gone too". I am not going to take the time to ask them who they are. Everybody in the park will know what just happened.
4. Manager having seen two instantaneous ejections should know what is coming next if he gets involved and should try to maintain order.
5. If while driving away I find a game ball in my bag, it stays there.

Partner will get a phone call when I get home. Assignor will know I do not care to work with him and why.

I remember a game Tee posted once where he got about 5-6 ejections in a row. They just kept coming. Keep tossing until there are no coaches left and the game is forfeit for lack of coaching.

[SanDiegoSteve]

What DG said.

Plus, I'm not shy to tell catchers to move up closer. I put them where I want them, which is catching strikes.

My favorite trick is to move up to where they were set up and they have no choice but to move closer to the plate.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

My favorite trick is to move up to where they were set up and they have no choice but to move closer to the plate.

One of the disadvantages of the GD system is it gives the catcher too much room to hang themselves.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by nickrego

One of the disadvantages of the GD system is it gives the catcher too much room to hang themselves.

Since you mentioned it, I have recently abandoned the Gerry Davis stance in favor of a standard heel toe. I have taken to placing my hands behind my thighs, leaving only the soft underside of the arms exposed. I have seen numerous MLB umpires doing this, and I have taken to doing it that way.

If I could get decent catchers ever, I would love to work the scissors again, as I did most of my umpiring life.

[BuggBob]

If the ball goes through the strike zone it is a strike, I don't care if it is a good or bad the catch. You can't tell catchers to move up, left, right or back --that is coaching, we're umpires not coaches. If the catcher is blocking my view of the plate, the strike zone just got smaller, I may tell him if he asks.

Good for you Nick from what you described you did exactly right. I would however have words with my partner, many bad words.

Bugg

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What DG said.

Plus, I'm not shy to tell catchers to move up closer. I put them where I want them, which is catching strikes.

My favorite trick is to move up to where they were set up and they have no choice but to move closer to the plate.

You may become shy if you ever verbally re-position a catcher and he gets hurt and informs the coach that his injury wouldn't have happened if the umpire had not made him adjust his position.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What DG said.

Plus, I'm not shy to tell catchers to move up closer. I put them where I want them, which is catching strikes.

My favorite trick is to move up to where they were set up and they have no choice but to move closer to the plate.

Well, Steve, I think you should be shy about coaching a catcher on where to set up. He has a coach and it's his responsibility. If the catcher want's to set up too close or too far back it's on him when his pitcher can't buy a strike. Let the coach handle it.


$.02

Tim.

[Texas Aggie]

I don't work baseball, but I disagree telling him to move up is coaching. That's similar in basketball to saying "this is a spot throw in, so stay put" or "you can run the line." Or even, "blue 23, get your hands off."

There's also guys in football that think its coaching to tell players on the end who are supposed to be on the line (or off of it) to move up or get back, as the case may be. Although I agree that you should limit such discussion above, say, 9th grade games, I still don't think its coaching. I'm going to tell the defender he's offsides if he's lined up in the neutral zone and I have a chance to. If he doesn't get back, I'll throw a flag just like I would if the offense stays in an illegal formation.

I don't think its coaching unless you, by your actions or statements, are giving one team a clear advantage over the other. Telling a kid to "lay off that curve ball because I'm not calling a strike on it" is one thing. Telling a catcher to move up when he may not be aware he's too far back is another. If he's missing balls, that's affecting you as an umpire. The kid swinging isn't affecting you.